Are The Scottie's and Brier Broken?

In this episode of Rock Stars, we take on a big question that many curling fans and players have been wondering for years: are the Scotties Tournament of Hearts and the Brier still working the way they were meant to? We look back at our first national championships in 2002 and share what made those events feel so special. We explore the format, sponsorships, how the player experience has changed over time, and whether some of that original magic may have been lost along the way.

We also discuss what curling needs to protect vs. rethink and the complicated realities behind today’s format changes, including the challenge of balancing provincial representation with putting the very best teams on the ice. If you love curling like we do, be sure to leave a like on this episode and share with us what you think we should talk about next.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Rockstars, the podcast where high performance meets real life.

SPEAKER_01 0:05

I'm Brent Lang, joined by my wife, Jennifer Jones, and this is where we talk about rocks, rings, and everything in between.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

It's about chasing dreams and asking, why not me?

SPEAKER_01 0:14

And figuring out how to keep going when things get hard or hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Sometimes it's just us talking curling, business, family, and parenting.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Sometimes it's bigger conversations about success, pressure, and believing that anything is possible.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

We keep it honest, uplifting, and fun.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

We might even make you laugh.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Because this is about the wins, the losses, and real life in between. Rocks, rings, real life.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

This is Rockstars.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Welcome back to Rockstars, Rocks, Rings, and Real Life. The podcast where a couple of dream chasers open up about chasing big goals, living in the moment, navigating life's highs and lows, and figuring out what comes next on and off the ice. I'm Olympic and world champion Jennifer Jones. And as always, I'm joined by my amazing husband, world champion and Olympian Brent Lang. Brent, what are we diving into on today's episode?

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Well, Jen, today we're going to tackle a pretty big question about two events that I think are, well, I know I hold a pretty special place in our hearts. We're going to talk about the Scotties Tournament of Hearts and the Briar, which of course are our Canadian curling championships in Canada. And the question we're asking is not an easy one. It's I hope we're able to answer it. The question is are the Scotties and the Briar broken? Oh. It's a big question. It is a big question. I haven't told you that one yet, but that's what we're talking about today. So good luck with that. But they they really are two of the most historic and exciting events in curling, but they've undergone a ton of changes over the last number of years, call it 15 years. And the question needs to be asked, you know, at some point, have we gone too far? Have we lost the plot? What's the plot in the beginning? Like what's the what's the point in the first place? But more or less, have and ruined isn't the right word, but have we ruined the events in some ways? And are some changes needed? So Jen, maybe let's start with you know what the Scotties and the Briar were like when you and I first qualified for these events, way back in. Should we say the date?

SPEAKER_00 2:14

No.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Well, we have to. It's kind of weird because we both qualified for our first nationals. We had never even met in 2002.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Yeah, I know it's all on Wikipedia, so I guess day to day people can figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Yeah. But yeah, like uh my first Briar was in Calgary at the Saddle Dome.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Mine was in Brandon, hometown. That's the only Scotties I ever played in Manitoba.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

That's crazy. I can't believe there hasn't been a Scotties in Winnipeg.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

No.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

In what is that? Do some quick math. 25 years, 24 years. Like that's insane. But yeah, we were in Calgary. But yeah, let's touch on some of the things. I know at my first event, like some of the things that made the Briar special. And I hey, I'm a Canadian curler, so guess what I'm good at? Complaining.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Yeah, we we do complain.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Having not been in the game now for a couple years and being a little bit on the other side, it's like, yeah, you know, if there's 10 complaints, 11 of them are from Canadians. But uh I say that tongue in cheek. But my the first Briar and the Briars back in the day for me, and you can talk about the Scotties. Obviously, I didn't go to any Scotties as a player, but they made you feel pretty special from the second you got there. Now, I'm not saying there weren't any issues. You know, back then I was playing with Team Howard, and Glenn and his brother had some literally legal battles with Curling Canada about whether or not they were allowed to wear sponsorship, which at the Briar we were not. But I will say, you know, you had a team driver, you had players lounge with beers and snacks where you'd hang out with players. There were family lounges. I mean, I was 22, so I didn't have a family or anybody with me, but uh family drivers, even probably the favorite part for me. I was coming from university where I was living in a pretty small room. It's you know, probably about a 1200 square foot house with six bedrooms. They weren't really bedrooms with six guys living there. So we each had our own hotel room, which I thought was cool. That was the only time in Curling where at that time we weren't staying four guys to a room. I had a king bed instead of two doubles with four guys, I had a king bed all to myself in my own room, which was pretty cool. But and we we used to play in the largest venues. I mean, Saddledome, it's been a while. I I guess probably 2015 was the last time, but I can tell you in the final in 20 in 2002, there were 18,000 people, I think. And it was loud in there when Furby and Dave Nedwin made that shot. But then we went back in 15, and I don't think they ever got more than 14 or even 15,000 for the final. So that's maybe another topic. But and of course, the Briar, the Briar Patch is known for some of the best parties you could uh ever imagine. And the the you know, the Scotties version is the Heart Stop Lounge, which I've been to that a number of times, but not until you know, probably the first Scotties I went to would have been 2012. And it's not as big as the patch, in my experience. But the Briar Patch now is not as big as what I would call the patch in my experience either, in a lot of ways. So that was, you know, like I said, no ability to wear your own sponsors, but uh that's what it was like. And the format was simple 12 teams, round robin to a page, which at the time I I really didn't like. I find it ironic now that I actually wish we used the page properly because it's it's designed for two pools, and then the winners of the pools play, and uh the loser plays the winner of that three, four, but we don't even do that right right now. But that's that's what I remember from my first Briar is just how special it felt. Obviously, it was pretty exciting. Uh, you did get to play everyone. There was you know a number of good teams, and the the difference between the best teams and the also Rans, there weren't as many easy games at the time. There still were, but that's that's kind of changed. But um, what what was it like for you, Jen? I mean, that's my experience of that. My first Briar was similar feelings at your first Scotty's. What made it special?

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Yeah, for sure, similar feelings. You felt like a rock star, like you truly oh, look at that rock star. I didn't even do that on purpose, but no, I didn't. But you just went in there and you felt like you were a superstar. I I remember walking into our room, and unlike the men at the Scotties, we had to share rooms. We only got four rooms. So you shared with one of your teammates, actually, your fifth player shared with another fifth player from a what?

SPEAKER_01 6:08

They're saying they treated the men better. They did. Do they still?

SPEAKER_00 6:12

No, I think it's well, in a couple of things they do, yeah. So we can get into that as well. But so we we did share rooms, but you walked into the room and there was always a gift from the host committee. And in Brandon, I actually got these moccasin slippers. Oh, that's for those are yeah, that had the Scotty's turn with heart logo on it, and I still have them. And the only time, because I wanted them to last, the only time I ever wore them was at the Scotties, and I would bring them thinking, Oh, I'll bring go to one Scotties or two Scotties or whatever, and these will be my but I went to more than that. More than that. Yeah, and then I did actually wear them at the last Olympics. So they did make an Olympic uh experience, I guess. They they they got to travel to the Olympics, but you would you'd get these yeah, you'd get this special gift and you would go and there'd be this amazing um banquet to start. You all had to dress the same, trying to get like six or five women, and maybe six, depending if your coach was a woman or not, into the same outfit. And you literally like you'd win your provincial, and then you'd have three weeks, not even, to get this outfit that you all had to match. But it was kind of cool. Being from Manitoba, you always tried to get something yellow or brown, just because you tried to I know tried to get the provincial color. You know, you got away from that a little bit because sometimes it was just impossible. It's not you know, Ontario red was a little bit easier, red and black.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Red, black and white.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

That was easier.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

But we also were good looking fellas, but oh yeah. Oh, that's back then you didn't know me that you had long locks, didn't you?

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Or not as a briar, no.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

First Briar no on short hair. I'd been done with Slanger's locks by then.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Yeah, so we'd go and and but it was different. We never had a family lounge, we never had like you know, there was no free beer or anything like that for us. We didn't even really get a per diem, but what they'd have is a curler's kitchen. So at the hotel they would have a breakfast, lunch, and dinner that you could go to. Um, but sometimes it didn't work out. And you'd want to like, I actually one of my favorite things about going to new places is trying out the food um and going to different restaurants. So I actually love some people really liked the curler's kitchen. Me personally, I prefer being allowed to go like to different places and really experience the culture of the, but that's one of my favorite things to do. So it was different. We did get our own team driver, which was amazing. Like the people that we met along the way. Um, our driver in Newfoundland in 2025, her name is Karen. And uh yeah, her and her family were unbelievable. And I think back to it because we actually didn't need a driver then because our hotel was attached to the arena and we would just walk. But Karen would meet us at the front desk every day and would take us and walk with psychos.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Security, right? You're a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

No, because I mean we weren't back then, we hadn't won anything, so she was just amazing, the nicest person in the entire world. I'll never forget how excited she was when we won. And then since then, we we stayed in touch. Our my parents would stay at her home, her family would welcome them in, I guess, as Newfoundlanders do, but it really has been this special thing. I remember Joan from London, um, like all these amazing drivers. And so I miss that. I do. I miss having that experience of a local and just feeling like you kind of have been brought in. But again, some people do like having their own vehicle and being able to go when they wanted to go. I don't love parking, as you know, and walking to place.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

No, it's nice to get dropped off.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

So you get dropped off, especially when when, yeah, like it's I don't know, not very nice out or I but I remember at the world's or no, the Scotties in Regina in 2008, we got hit by a semi. Just sideswiped as it was going around a corner.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

But it obviously not that hard.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

But our van, it cut it open like a can opener on the side when it was and we had to chase it down, it didn't know it hit us. So our drive, we had to chase it down. Like, but those stories are what you remember. So it and then at the end of the bank, at the end of the event, all the teens stayed, whether you were in it or not, and there was a black tie formal dinner. And Andrew, who takes the pictures all week, would put together this collage of photos and you would watch it. And you just felt like you were living in a different world, that your dreams had come true every second of every day, over and over and over again. And I'll never I'll never forget those experiences and playing. You did play all the teens. I prefer a true round robin. Um, so you got to play all the teens, get to know everybody. You didn't feel like you were in two separate bond spills where you don't see the other pool. So, some similarities, some differences. And I think what happened and why you guys lost a few things and we gained a few things is they tried to make them eat them. Yeah, yeah, they tried to make it equal.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

Take from the guys and give to the girls. It's funny you say like a couple of things. You know, when you're in it, it's it's that old quote. What's the I've seen it recently? Like, I wish somebody would tell you when you're in the good old days. Like you say the banquets, and I remember thinking about the banquets, like it was fun to get a new suit, or we got you know, funky ties one year. I remember from Denali to uh Aubrey helped us get some nice purple shirts with our gray suits, nothing to do with Ontario colors, but that's what we wore and ties. And you know, but to me at that time, sometimes the the banquets were fun at times, but they got to be a little tedious. The Scotty's wrap-up with the the photos and stuff was really cool when I got to see. I only think I only got to go to one of those with you. That was that was cool. I remember lots of drivers to our best driver ever, Carrie Goodwright, Marcy's husband. Amazing. He took us to the best patch ever, was also in Regina in 06. He would drop us, take us to the patch after, and he we'd be like, Oh, he's definitely long gone. So you're walking out to get a cab and he'd tap you on the shoulder, you're ready to go home. And it's like, you've just been like standing here watching us have a great time and just waiting to drive us home. You don't have to do that. He's like, That's my job, that's what I signed up for. He was a player, he knew how great it was to get a ride home. And uh, but it is interesting to to look back, and some of the things that I would say maybe annoyed me back then where you look back and it's it it was you know, especially for new people coming to their first briar, you know, those types of things are pretty cool, and now those aren't those aren't there, and the new format which we'll get to like I didn't even see most of the people in the other pool.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

You know, when we started, we I'm pretty sure we didn't have Northern Ontario that we definitely didn't.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

That's in here too. Don't worry, we'll get to your favorite topic.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

But so it anyway, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

I did ask, I asked AI, I asked Grok. I don't know if you like Grok or Chad GPT, but ChatGBT is just way easier to say. But I I asked Grok about the changes since 2002, and this is what uh came back with. So first said the Tim Hortons Briar, now the Montana's Briar. Used to be the Nokia Briar. It's the annual men's curling championship since 02. Its format's evolved significantly to adapt growing talent depth, high performance goals, Olympic qualification needs, and fan athlete feedback, shifting from a simpler provincial territorial setup to a larger, more inclusive field with wild cards and pool play. Now, can we comment on some of those reasons? And I'm not saying this is curling Canada saying this, but AI's pretty bright at scrubbing the internet and finding the the reasons, but high performance goals, growing talent depth in Canada, is that why we needed to add more teams? Because we have more good players. Is that true?

SPEAKER_00 13:08

No, I don't I think I don't think that's true. I think one of the issues was is you look at certain provinces had a ton of depth. So and I look in Alberta for the men, Kevin Coey, Kevin Martin, Randy Furby were all playing at the same time, and only one of those teams got to go to the Briar. And so it became it just became hard to curl out of those provinces and continue to play and to have that next generation stay strong and stay in there when they really weren't going to be able to get to a Briar or Canadian championship for a a long time.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Kevin Couy didn't go to a Briar till 2010.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

He lost I don't know how many provincial finals. I remember him telling me once, because he was playing Kevin Martin all the time or whomever it was in the provincial final. He's like, when do I get to play Kevin Couie in the provincial final?

SPEAKER_01 13:55

That was one of his best lines. He used to say that to us at the slams, too. When do I get Cooey in the final?

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Yeah, because you know, he always had to play all these tough players. And on the women's side, like you look at Manitoba when we were playing, he had Carrie Enerson, Chelsea Carey, and our our team all kind of at the same time. And so it became very difficult for a lot of really talented players to play. And then you bring in the realistic issue of today's world, which didn't happen when the rules were made. And I know there's some gonna be some diehard fans who love the provincial boundary, but that was in a time when people didn't travel as much. There was no like airplane travel on a regular basis. Like and I look at you and I, like there's so many people that have moved because of jobs and moved because of relationships. But like I always felt like I'd had curled out of, you know, Manitoba as as a as an as a curling athlete on in women's play. And um, you know, now we represent Ontario for mixed doubles, but it's just I don't know, it just felt like it was just archaic. The the rules seemed very archaic and it penalized us as competitive players from searching outside the provincial boundaries to complete a team. And I actually think the rules actually hurt some of the smaller um curling kind of destinations, whether it could be uh doesn't matter which province it is, because maybe there's not the talent pool isn't as deep as it could as it is in other provinces, and it prevented people that really wanted to pursue curling, that wanted to do it regularly, that wanted to travel and do all of these things. You had to find three other people that wanted to do the same thing. And when you're in a place that maybe there's just not that depth, it's hard to do. So I actually think the rules penalized and hurt um a lot of our maybe smaller provinces or or provinces that just didn't have the the volume of curlers um that some provinces had. I don't know. What do you think?

SPEAKER_01 15:50

No, I think that's fair, and I I do agree with you when you're talking about talent depth that we didn't want to see, you know, three of our top five teams in Canada, almost in the world, at some times were in, you know, Alberta in the men's game. So we want it, we want, I think, maybe maybe I shouldn't speak out of turn here, at a Canadian championship, call me crazy. We do want to make sure our best teams get there, I hope.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Yeah, and most other sports actually have that. It's all based on ranking, it's not based on one rep per province. And I do love history, like I like history as much as anybody. Like I love Remembrance Day and and just making sure that we do kind of recognize that. But a lot of sports that are sending the team to a world championship, like you can have multiple people from the same province. You look at speed skating, who's centralized in Calgary. Well, most of their athletes lived in Calgary. So if they had went by a residency rule, you would it would have been very, very challenging for them to select the people that would go to their Canadian championship. So I think a change was required. And it's just a question of whether, you know, we have nailed it because you do have to protect some parts of the legacy, but in the same breath, you have to make sure that we're progressing forward and having our best athletes represent Canada and also make sure that we're preserving it for that next generation so that there's gonna be that depth that we need.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Yeah, and I don't think any of the changes had anything to do. One of the comments from from AI was that it had something to do with Olympic qualification.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

No.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

I don't think that's I think that misses the mark. Fan athlete feedback. I think from a fan perspective, I think some of the feedback might have been, you know, there was a huge outrage, and we'll talk about when they went to relegation, right? Like I, you know, it's traditionally it's been. I remember Johnny Moe did a uh a project in like university how the Briar is the most Canadian Canadian championship of any sport because it has regional representation. Which in a lot of ways is really cool. In some ways it's it's caused problems, and I think without I I think it's kind of we're not doing it we're not doing justice to either side. It's not the it's not like the trials where it's the best teams that qualify, and it's not like the traditional Briar where it's there's provincial boundaries. We've kind of bastardized both.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Yeah, I feel like we're just trying to make everybody happy.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

And nobody's happy.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Yeah, that's kind of how I feel. It's just like we've tried to make these changes with band-aid solutions and really not, you know, protected the game in the way that we potentially should, but from both sides, from growing the competitive side, from growing grassroots to protecting the integrity of the Briar.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

So talk to me about why has the Scotties, why did it always have a Team Canada and the Briar didn't because we didn't have a Northern Ontario. So you wanted to know why you had Team Canada.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Well, it started, it's King Team Canada started because they wanted to try to market it. So the women's game was growing, Kruger took over, and it changed women's curling forever. Like I I don't think I'll ever say the K-word, which is K word?

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Kleenex. I wouldn't say I don't even know what it is anymore.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Ever in my life.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Like a couple things I had to learn to date Jen. Anyways is not a word, it's anyway. I grew up in Meaford, anyways is a word, by the way. And it's not Kleenex, it's tissue.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

It is tissue. Our kids wouldn't even know what a Kleenex is, no. No. Or you call it a Scotty, right? Like that is just how we grew up. So they I'll be forever grateful. If they ever picked up the phone and asked me to do anything, I shouldn't say this. I know, I would do it because they made my dreams come over come true in so many incredible ways. And they believed in women in sport, they believed in women in curling. And Team Canada was one of the ideas they had to help market it, to really promote the game. And it was really the first time that I think curling used its athletes. And I actually think that's something that we need to do better going forward is just using more of the athletes, getting to know them, feeling invested as in terms of marketing.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Can we change the using them to partnering with them?

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Sorry, that is a better way to say it.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

They did a good job of using us for a lot, a lot of years.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

That's a better way to say it. But anyway, so that's why Team Canada was at the Scotties, but it also made sense in the terms of the number of teams. We had Team Canada, the men didn't have Team Canada, but they had Northern Ontario, so it was the same number of teams.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Right. And that's that's exactly why uh how I understood it that Scotties wanted a Team Canada to promote, to help grow it, to help say, hey, Team Jones for a long time, Colleen Jones, Jennifer Jones, you know, Team Allison Goring was Team Canada, all these teams that won come back as Team Canada. You can promote them and say they're going to be there. Like, come see this team. The Briar was already at that point so big it didn't the teams, and that was the challenge the players had as we not we, I was too young, but Glenn and Russ and those guys, as they were challenging, I won't say fighting, they were challenging some of the rules. The Briar was so big that it didn't almost didn't matter who the players were that came. And I think that's since changed because I watched some games last week that I I love curling as much as the next fella. There were a lot of unwatchable games at the Briar, and that's what scares me. But yeah, in 2015, the Briar announced we're bringing in Team Canada. Kevin Kuey was the first team Canada with Pat Simmons and Carter Rycroft and Nolan Tyson. But Kevin Kuey qualified for that Briar twice because he left the team and Johnny Moe came in and Kevin came to play with us, and we were Team Alberta. But that's when it started, and that's also when we just added an extra team, played one more round robin game, and and we gave you your favorite province, the province of Northern Ontario and the Scotties.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

And it's just not moves. I'm sorry. No, I love it, and I love the moose call. I love the history behind it.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

Yeah, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Like I I I think it adds a lot, but from somebody who is curled or who's represented well a province, it was always hard for me to wrap my head around why does Ontario get two spots at the Squatties?

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Because we're the center of the universe.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

And people will say, Well, it's a different curling association, and it has been for many years. And I get that. I understand.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Not now though. They just amalgamated again.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Oh, did they? Yeah. So there you go. Um, but there was the n Northern Alberta and Southern Alberta curling associations. There was it it just didn't seem my logical brain. Just didn't understand how that was a thing.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

And I could never defend it when you brought it up, so I just kind of would poke you and make fun of it and just say, it's just the way it is, okay? I hate that answer myself.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Yeah, I don't love that answer. Like I think we have to be progressive. And I and again, I don't want people like I know I love I love a lot of things that Northern Ontario brings. But if a team from the north from Northern Ontario wins, then you can bring out the moose calls and you can bring out all of those things.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Well that's what used to happen. Like for the the ladies was an all-Ontario thing, and you might have to go to Thunder Bay, and that's like when Heather Houston, when Heather Houston was the rep, then you'd then you'd hear all of those things.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

So I did struggle a little bit with that one. Um it just seemed kind of crazy to me as we were trying to make it equal. This was at the time of reg relegation, and we were trying to, and this is when the men lost their hotel rooms and a bunch of things at like no more players lounge.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

And yeah, it was it was gone by now, first long gone by 2015. This is when they separated, I think, the first, and somebody's gonna tell us we got the timeline wrong. I did my research, but that doesn't mean I'm always right. But this is when the territories split for a long time. It was Yukon Northwest Territories. Nunavit wasn't even.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

They had to play off. The territories played off.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Well they played off, and it was one team, and then but then when Nunavut was this is when we started to give them three different entries, and that's when it became too big for one round robin, and that's when, and I'm not blaming anybody, that's where it became how do we deal with now what was it, 15, 16 teams? You can't have a 16-team round robin. Like that's just too many games, it's too long to have a big arena. It's for a number of reasons, but then shortly after that, I think it was around 2018, they brought in the old swear word relegation.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

I know. And people, uh you know, it was hard because when it was happening and it was good friends of yours, and all of a sudden they lost in relegation and they were crying. You're like, well, why can't you just stay?

SPEAKER_01 23:47

So, what was relegation, Jen? Let's explain it in case you want me to? Yeah, you go for them. So relegation essentially was before the tournament started, before the Briar started. If you were in the bottom couple from last year, you would have to come in and earn your spot in the field. And it was that so let's call it there were 16 teams, maybe 17 even. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it was at least 16. The bottom four would come in and play for two spots, and you'd come in all the from all across wherever. And I'm unfortunate that happened exactly what we said. Paul Fleming, one of the greatest guys ever, really great curler from Nova Scotia, brought some young guys. They win the province and they come in there in relegation, and he was beside himself upset that they didn't play up to their potential. They were plenty good enough at that time to be in the Briar and compete with all the top teams. Maybe they weren't going to win the Briar, but they were they were a real curling team and they just didn't perform well. And there was a couple other reasonable teams in the relegation and saw him in the patch, and he was just heartbroken.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Yeah. And I remember seeing Kerry Galusha, like Kerry Cooey, and and I just, yeah, I didn't like that. And it's like I just I'll play more games. I would raise my hand, like I'll stay longer, I'll play more games, let's just let everybody play. Um, but you like you said, once it got to meet more and more teams, and it just became too challenging. And and uh so they moved to pools, to these two pools, which we could there was a lot of pushback, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Like there was a lot of I mean, social media was not really as big as it is now, but who was really opposed to it? Because there was a big pushback from well, I can say I think from the associations where the teams were in relegation. I mean, Carrie Cooy, she was a big uh, you know, big time against it.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

No, actually I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

No?

SPEAKER_00 25:23

No.

unknown 25:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

I don't think so. We'd have to ask her, but I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Um So who was against it? I actually don't know the answer to that question. Why do we look back at it so hated? If I think it was just the emotional response, fans didn't like it. Like all we would see on on the TV was people crying and being upset. It was it was just heartbreaking to see, and and so I think some of the players pushed to just let them in, and instead of just letting them in, we came up with some crazy formats.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

We've seen Dunny crying on TV forever. We still have finals. I can say that now because he finally won the Briar. Congrats to those guys. But yeah, anyway, it's it's a tough one. But the format, we couldn't have that many teams. So on to the next. We keep changing it. How do we find the solution? You know, we get to two pools of nine, right? In 2018, the field expanded uh after the Olympics, removed relegation entirely, all four team members, associations, 10 provinces, three territories, and team Canada, direct entry, and then we start. Plus Northern Ontario, right? Plus, we started with the wildcard play-in games, which were kind of cool, but that's if we don't like flying across the country to play four games, how do you like flying across? And I played in one of these, and we lost in Brandon, Manitoba. We flew out there to play one game and we lost to Botcher, and that was it. We got to turn around and go home. But we didn't win our province. So that for me it was like we had a we had two chances. I mean, how many chances do you need to get into the Briar? And we obviously lost to two teams that are in the field, so we don't not deserve. Deserves not a word I use often, but maybe we didn't belong that year and whatever. But then in 21-22, through COVID, everything changed, the whole world changed, and this is when we went to two pools, like a lot of things, a lot of bad things came from COVID. We ended up with this format two pools of nine for round robin. But when we first started with it, there were some crossover, like you'd bring your record with you. But what and I think that was the Kingston Briar again. I don't don't quote me on that, but there was a possibility you play the eight games in your round robin, you finish in the top four. You might even have a play, you might even have a tiebreaker to get out of your pool. We still had tiebreakers. So play eight and a tiebreaker.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

I love tiebreakers.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Bring in the tiebreaker back. Oh, I do. Listen to me here though. So nine games, and then you go and you play the other four teams in the top pool. You're at 13 games. Another tiebreaker to get to the three, four. Fourteen games. 3-4, 15 games. I'll do it. 16 games, 17 games to win the Briar.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

I mean, you'll do it, but that can't be the answer either, can it? No, I I I don't think that one was the answer. Um I do still like tiebreakers, but anytime you're moving to a pool play, I'm just never gonna agree. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

So and now if you watch the Scotties and the Briar this year, it's two pools of nine, and the top three from each pool, no tiebreaker games now. So you do get knocked out on shootout, which is always going to happen. Teams know that going in. I mean, they were five and three, a couple teams got knocked out. Team I was working with, team McEwan.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

But you can have a different record. Like a five and two can get knocked out in one pool, and five and three can go through in the other.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Five and three and six and two? Yeah, no, and John Effing last year was six and two, and he got knocked out. I'm not I hate the format. Let's get that up front. Uh, I can tell you from experience, especially this year, and where this topic came from, I'll give I'll give credit to to Pat Simmons. We're sitting on the bench, and I gotta tell you, the the pool we were in, and I think both pools, other than the atmosphere in the other pool, where in our marketing genius we put Team Canada and both of the Newfoundland teams in the same pool. Guess what the atmosphere was like in our pool?

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Boring.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Yeah, it was awful. And the games, for the most part, were pretty awful as well.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Would have just been quiet, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

So but I'm thinking, and and Pat says, This is broken, man. What's and I'm like, what are you talking about? Just out of the blue. He's like, I'm like, these events are amazing, the Briar and the Scotties, but look around. Would you buy a ticket to sit in here right now? And I'm like, not a chance in hell. And why would I bring my family out or any friends to show them this? Like, well, Newfoundland.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Newfound did an amazing job. So they're not saying that. Newfoundland is amazing. Like amazing, amazing.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

But you had to see the traffic. I had a room with a view of uh whatever street that is that runs in front of the mile one. Is it still no, it's Mary Brown's now, center. And at the end of that draws games, traffic jams. And it's like, guys, we play in an hour. Where are you going? Go to the patch and come back. That wasn't happening.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Yeah, we needed well, and that doesn't make any sense to me either because we have these two pools, and like the pools are never equal. The Scotties and the Briar pools this year to me were crazy uneven. Like it wasn't even close to being what they should be.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

What causes that?

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Well, I Well, how do they do it?

SPEAKER_01 29:58

They put in Team Canada with the host province.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

And why why can they do that? Why can they they can do whatever they want, but they were not supposed to manipulate a draw. So how do they manipulate the draw and have Team Canada playing in this? And I don't first of all, I don't understand why they would want that. I would think you'd want Team Canada, the host province, and different pools to kind of get to make sure that the crowds are coming to both games. I think they want Team Canada to play the host province, but I I fully don't understand that. So they do that. Uh, and then they try to then and then they try to correct it if depending on C2S rankings and world point rankings, but it just it it just doesn't work. Like if somebody asks me what would I do, I I think you almost have to go back to the team seed them and you take that into account, but there's no manipulating it to get home province and team Canada in the same pool. That does not make any sense to me at all.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

I have no rebuttal to that because I agree with that one million percent. And if you're going to manipulate it, which I don't think you should, at least do it right. Don't put all three of your biggest draws in one pool so that the other pool has nothing going on. Like I felt for the teams that are I obviously really wanted Team McEwen to get through and wanted them to win the Briar and did everything I could to make that happen. Uh, obviously I didn't do enough, it didn't happen. But partway through the week, I'm looking over at Braden Calvert's team. And Braden is one of the best curlers of his generation. He just he's a farmer, and I've grew up with farmers, and I know that that's a lifestyle, and he doesn't put in the time and effort that other people do, but they put in a lot of time and effort and they win a lot when they play. And I looked across and halfway through the week, and I leaned over to Pat and I said, Pat, if they don't qualify for the next round, they didn't get to play in the briar.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Yeah, because they didn't get to play when the crowd was there, which would have been tragic.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

So at least they got one game and they got to go and play in the front of the big crowd, and because it was two different bond spiels, and not just because of the fans and everything else. And yes, St. John's was incredible. Probably one of the best. Frank John's is always incredible. I love it. It has been every single time. No, that's a lie. No, I would we would be divorced. No, have you because I'm too small, I get blown away in the wind, and it's too cold, and summer's two weeks long.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

It's just a wee wind.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

No, it is.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

I love it there.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

No, it's great there. It's a great place to visit. I couldn't live there. I'm I'm not tough enough.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Let's be honest. I grew up in Winnipeg.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Yeah, okay. But anyway, totally lost my train of thought because now you got me thinking about how windy and cold it was. You got the Saskatchewan saying, man, it's the wind. It's just a wee wind. No, no, it was uh, but it was fantastic. And you know, they I just wish they had have done a better job of making sure that people were on both sides and you know, for for better or for worse. But my my whole point of it is I'm worried that why would people not just show up for the final weekend now?

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Well, you know what's crazy is we have kids who love curling. Okay, they go back and they watch games on YouTube, especially Isabella. She loves it. Like she'll watch Edward play.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Like oh, we watched some real good ones out in some Johns.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

And and some old games. She had no interest in watching the Briar unless there's a chance of seeing you, which I thought was very sweet. So if your game was being televised, uh or until the playoff, the whatever qualified I don't even know what it's called. The second round began. Yeah, that's not playoffs. It's that's the qualifying.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

It goes from two okay, here we go. So it goes from two pools, top three in each pool, go to round two, we'll call it. We'll call it the playoff qualification round to play some qualification games. And then what happens? That's the confusing part where you know if you win, you maybe you're in, if you lose, maybe you're out, but you get try and end up getting to you could go undefeated, lose two games straight, like Kelsey Rock did, and you didn't make the top four, and you went undefeated in your pool. No, I know. You didn't make the playoffs. Yeah. So it's just it's too confusing.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

And that starts on what Thursday?

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Uh the round robin ends on Thursday, those start on Friday.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

So Isabella didn't want to watch till the final weekend, and she watches everything curling. Um, and I asked her why, and she says, because the I mean the games just aren't that interesting, and it just doesn't it just didn't wasn't exciting for her, which made me a little bit sad because I remember watching, like, I'm not sad that she doesn't want to watch curling, like she can do whatever she wants, but she loves curling. And that made me also realize that and I know that the Briar and the Scotties have so much history and legacy, and we think they're incredible, but we need the next generation to think they're incredible as well. We need that new fan, that next fan to want to continue watching it. And so we can't rely on what we did yesterday, it's never gonna be good enough for tomorrow. So that's kind of another reason for this conversation is how can we make sure that we get those new fans loving curling as much as kind of diehard fans do today?

SPEAKER_01 34:42

Right. And if we like most Canadian championships, Briars and Scotties, by the weekend, you know, page aside, format pools, whatever's happened, it's pretty compelling and exciting on the weekend, and people forget all about it. And if you brought somebody in and I wasn't at any of the games on the weekend because we lost and I came home, but if you brought a new a new sports fan, never really seen curling, you bring them into the the final weekend of a Briar, yeah, they're gonna love it. But we're trying to, one of the things the Briar and the Scotties do for curling Canada is they fill the bank. That's that's their cash cow, especially the Briar historically, just because it's in bigger buildings. So if we're creating a product that nobody wants to see until Friday, Saturday, Sunday of week of the second weekend, when it starts a week earlier, you got a 10-day event which people are gonna if somebody asked me if they said I want to go to a Briar, it's like you should absolutely go to the Briar. It's a riot or the Scotties, it's tons of fun, atmosphere is great, but just go for the closing weekend because the rest of it now is Is there still morning classes? No, it ended last year.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Oh see, there used to be that too. That was fun too.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

But but that would be that would be my message, and that's not good for the bottom line. That's not good for the revenue model.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

But I mean, having said that, St.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

John's sold out for uh the almost the entire time, and I think you know Only because they all they would only sell, they knew they were gonna sell out, so they would only sell week passes where you had to buy everything.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Right. And I mean it was it was Brad Gushu's last briar. There were it was and Newfoundland is is amazing. Like I would highly recommend going there at any time.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

But we're moving there.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Well, I would.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Are we?

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Well not well, we can't, but I'm just saying I love it there. Love, love, love, love, love. The whole Maritimes, actually. I know that's in Atlantic, it's not Maritimes, it's in Atlantic province. But anyway. So I just I don't know. I just I want to make sure that we we just don't rest on our laurels, that we make sure that we progress and keep it entertaining for the next generation. So we did we did ask a bunch of people what they thought.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

Yeah, there was lots of comments on on social media. I mean, people some people love the page, some people, you know, it it it depends. But the other so uh here's what I think the Briar, you know, it's to promote the game, I think.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

To help grow the game around Canada, you know.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

Reven revenue generating.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

Big revenue generator. But promoting the game and generating revenue, I believe that TV is important with that.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

TV is very important.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

I didn't talk to TSN, but I'm sure if you called up Scott and you talked to him off the record and you said, How did you like the first six days of the Briar for TV? He's not gonna say, It was fantastic. Well, who and who knows what the numbers are, but we just can't No, I I don't know, but I know trying to watch some of those games, even in on the other draw when we were just hanging out in the hotel or resting or whatever, there were so many non-competitive games. And is that good for anybody? Is it great for a kid in Nunavut to get up and think, I could make the Briar? Look, that's Nunavut. Those guys are kind of from Nunavut. Some of them are, some of them aren't, not the point. And then they watch that team lose 14 to 1. And that's what the guy who's played in nine Briars and is a really good curler was. I don't know how much Derek plays anymore. Or watching a team go, I mean, playing with three, those guys are actually pretty good players, but showing up to a Briar with three, I would hope to hell that that rule is being fixed right now.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Yeah, and I agree. And people are saying, well, it was in the rules, and I'm not mad at them. Like, you know, no, but you know, curling could easily move to a three-man game nowadays with the sweeping the way it is, but I think we have to protect the integrity of it's a four-man game, and and uh it just adds excitement and adds something to it, and that would be my my thought.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Yes, and it should start with four for sure. At times, and I think this is part of what I love and what people love about curling, is that sometimes it looks like you know, our golf force them where it's buddies going out and having a bunch of beers and having fun and playing golf, and sometimes the Briar looks a little bit too much like that now, I think to me, with where the game's gone and and how many incredible athletes there are, and that's also why the gap's so big. And people are like, Well, that's curling. It's like I could not agree more. Curling's the best social sport I've ever been introduced to. It's part of the reason I love the game, but we have the the club championships for that, and it was going in the fantastic direction. Maybe this is another podcast, and for some reason we, as curling, lost the best sponsor of events in curling, Everest, funeral concierge. And they were taking the club championship. If you know anybody who's played in that, they were taking that to become what the Briar and Scotties were with the hospitality room and the social aspect and still the competition.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

Don't get me wrong, lots of pretty, lots of very good curlers there and and a great way to get better, and a great way for teens who can't maybe make the Briar haven't or don't have the time to dedicate because it does like to be at the level of a Rachel Holman, a Matt Dunstone, a Brad Jacobs, whomever it may be, it takes so much time, and not everybody has that time. And I I totally get that. And I'm also very protective of the history and making sure that every province can still grow their grassroots to grow curling, and you do that by seeing, you know, you see people that you know that were at the curling club and all of a sudden they're on TV. That's really that's really cool. Um, but I just we just have to find a way to have that and protect that in some ways, but I think it it can't happen the way it's continuing to happen. Because like Brent said, is it something you really want to see? Is that the people that you you know see every day at the local curling club can't really compete in this format.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

No, and it used to be for a lot of people, and you hear some of those people still playing or complaining about how you know the pros, pros in quotations, because they're there's people who put in pro time, but until Rock League launches, there are no pro curlers yet. There are people that that's all they really do, but that's like calling an Olympic cross-country ski a professional athlete. Just because that's all they do doesn't make them a professional. Professional means you make money. You can not even just make money, you can support your lifestyle. And I promise you that very few Olympians, maybe Lindsay Vaughn, not maybe definitely Lindsay Vaughn, you know, a certain number of athletes, but for the most part, if you want to be exceptional and want in an Olympic sport, you gotta sacrifice your career in a lot of ways. And I don't think it's a sacrifice, but but that's definitely part of it. And and that's why I love that that club championship. But but Jen, what do we need to protect? Let's talk a little bit about. Are we just gonna I'm just gonna let me complain and not have to offer any solutions? Can I just bitch and never say well better? Well, you hate that.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

So that would that would cause you a lot of unrest. You like getting used to.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

I won't ask you my favorite question that you hate. You know, what's the purpose of the brand?

SPEAKER_00 41:18

There's just so many different purposes.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

It's to it's to identify a team Canada, right? Yeah. Which we hope is a great team because we want as a as a country, we want our teams, we want to send our best. So we want a format where it promotes that. Do we send bad teams to worlds? No, we don't. So it does that. Uh, we want it to make money. I'm concerned that the revenue model is heading in the wrong direction. That part of the reason, part of the challenge with why we're getting heading into smaller arenas and you know, the time of selling 250,000 tickets in a week at a briar, I think that's the record. You know, we do great now if we hit 140 or 50. I mean, Newfoundland was sold out, it was a smaller arena, so they have limits to what they can do, but that's the new model. Well, if there's 5,000, 6, 7,000, 8,000 seat arenas instead of 16, I don't think you can make as much money. So what's causing that? No, there's other ways to do it, but if we could still sell out bigger arenas, and maybe it's not possible, but I think that's part of what it's supposed to do. It's supposed to promote the game right from the grassroots, and I think showing the best on TV is what does that. And it's also, I think it's a big a big thing, is it needs to support our high performance program in Canada, where I think if you look at the players in the Briar and the Scotties, less so in the Scotties, there's more under 35s. If you look at the players in the Briar, the best players, where like uh take out Matt Dunstone, Colton Lott, and Braden Calvert, and I'm missing some for sure, but show me some elite elite level players that we've developed in the last 15 years. And is the Briar to blame or the Scotties? I'm not saying it is or it isn't, but maybe.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

Yeah, I'd like to we need to protect that. We need the next generation to get that experience.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

Braden's been in the top 25 teams in Canada for 12 years, and that's his first Briar.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

Yeah, and he's coming because but he's coming out of a province that's tough to win, right? That's what I mean. So they don't play enough to get enough points to qualify now through like a you know, a points card point.

SPEAKER_01 43:17

And we stay, I say Braden doesn't play a lot, and he doesn't, but he's played more games this year than probably a handful of those players have played in their life that played in the Briar last week. Yeah. Is that I'm gonna get some hate mail? I don't get mail anymore, but I'm gonna get some pushback. But and I'm not saying there's certain people that don't belong there, but there's kind of certain people that it's that's not what it's about, and that's that's my question. So so what would we change? Um, and I I'll start. I know you love to be controversial, so and I don't think it's controversial. I'm not I love the Briar, I love the Scotties, curling is a fantastic sport. I want to see it thrive. I want to see it thrive the way it was heading when Everest was the sponsor of the club championships, and And I would love to see the, I can't believe I'm saying this out loud. People that know me, Glenn and Rich and Craig are gonna laugh at me. I do want to see us protect not the provincial borders, but the provincial flags. And what I mean by that is I still want to see it a national championship where there are Sasky and Manitoba and Ontario and Alberta and you know keep going, but they may not all be represented every year because I don't want it to be uh, you know, everybody has to have a spot because some years it's not gonna work. So I want to see the best 10 teams in Canada there, and you get to choose based on where those players either live or or are born. And it doesn't matter if there's two, three, four, it doesn't matter. You'd have four from all across and you're gonna pick where the skip's from. And that's gonna be Team Manitoba won Jones or whatever it happens to be. And then I would love to see out of the club championship the top two teams get a spot in the briar. And then that's that's where everybody else gets their chance. And I don't need to name any names, but that's that's what I that's what I see.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

The other option would mean would be to do what the European Championship does, and that's have an A and a B. Yeah, I love it. So you have the same thing almost, but same. So you run it at the same time, but it's the if you win the B the in the previous year, then you move up to the A, and the last per the last place team in the A moves down to the B. But then that becomes challenging because it's not it's teens, it's more team focused than country or which is what the your Europeans are, or provincial focused. So that would be maybe another sol solution is just to have qualifications and whether you run the B again in advance, and then the winner of the B gets to compete, or the the two finalists in the B get to compete, like you said, in the in the main event. Um so you could potentially do it that way and uh and then still have still have a meaningful event.

SPEAKER_01 45:53

And it's always it's always gonna be meaningful because it's gonna come down to a game for the Canadian Championship and somebody go to the world championship and somebody put their name on the the Briar or the Scotties trophy, which are historic trophies in Canada. So it's always going to be a winner in the end. I'd just like to see it more competitive and exciting the whole way through. And when I say 10 and 2, that gets us back to 12, which allows you to do the traditional round robin.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Yay!

SPEAKER_01 46:17

Which I think is better. And then I can get back to bitching about the page instead of everything else. I don't even the page doesn't even get on my top five anymore. And I used to really not like it. I mean, for instance, and why don't you like the page? Oh, here we go. Kevin Cuey just lost one game at the Briar. He's gonna finish the Briar at whatever it was. Is it 11 and one? I don't know. Doesn't matter. All these wins and one loss. Matt Dunstone, very deserving Briar champ. He's gonna finish the Briar at one less win, or maybe the same wins because he had to win the semi and two losses. But head to head, Kevin Kuey went two and one against Matt Dunstone, and Matt went one and two against Kevin. Matt's off to the world championship. To me, that doesn't make any sense. It doesn't. And it's not just because it's happened to me before. Um, I don't know if we've won the other way. I don't think we have. We're only I've only ever been on teams that are front runners. No, it probably has happened because we went with Kevin, we went through the three, four game even. So that for that reason, I don't love it. But again, that's not even high on my list, so we don't have to talk about that because it's it's the two pools, it's to the six teams, and then the pre-qualifier qualifier games that get you closer to the three, four and the one-two, and all that like you you you win your pool undefeated, and then you go lose one game, you can't get to the one-two game. You just drop back two whole wins from the guy who just dragaled it, just beat you, and you might have a better record.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

I know, but it's the same as the LSD. Don't even get me started there at like tiebreakers.

SPEAKER_01 47:36

Yeah, we don't have time for that one. But yeah, that's and we're getting away from from tiebreakers in general. But how strong do we feel that about provincial representation? Is that an integral part of the Scotties and the Briar that we want to see continue? And your name's we right now.

SPEAKER_00 47:50

Well, no, and I I do I do love that. I think like if we can change it so it's you know an A and a B so everybody can come and try and try to move up and you represent your province, and then you also still have uh some protected spots for CTRS um points uh and team Canada, then then sure.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Like can we run? Is it a terrible idea? Like you've already said it. Can we run the club championships like and call it something else? I don't care what you call it, but can we run the traditional Briar, you know, the week before, and then the Briar and it doesn't, or even alongside almost alongside each other, uh, so that the whole city is excited and maybe it's a curling club in an arena. I don't, I don't know. I'm thinking out loud here.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

But you'd have to look and see how they do the A and the B at the European Championship. I it the challenge with that, like I said, is it's based on last year's results for the following year, and you can't really quite do that in the format that we have. So, I mean, this is just a brainstorming session and it has to be polished, but it definitely can be done.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

So, are we as a as a country, are we doing a good enough job with our developing our next generation with our Canadian championships? Let's let's take an example of a guy you might have heard of. His name's Brad Gushu. Took him a long time, he was a great junior player. His advan his disadvantage of being a Newfoundland was I can't imagine the travel they've gone through and the amount of money they've spent on travel and flight delays and everything else. I'm not saying he had it easy by any means being out there, super impressive what they've done over such a long period of time. But the the upside of that was he did get to go, and I'm not saying he didn't have to beat anybody, but you know, his path to the briar was easier than most, and he got to go a whole bunch of times, and that's where he he'll be the first to tell you. That's where he cut his teeth, that's where he learned to lose, and that's where he learned to win. Are we doing a disservice to all pick and he's still really young, but Jordan McDonald not at the Briar this year is a tragedy.

SPEAKER_00 49:37

Tina Greyweather's not at the Briarny with the Briar. At the Scotties, sorry, what's that? That's tragic. Uh I think so. I think there's got to be at least one team in those qualified teams, like in the points teams. One team has to be in our next generation teams. That one of them that has to be represented.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

What if there's three of those though? Well and they're all in the same province. What if a couple what if what if we get a national training center and everybody moves there, and now we've got three SGW teams and three, that's a John Cullen where that's Serena Grey Withers, that's short form. And then we have three Jordan McDonald's and only one of them get to go. It's still tragedy.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

No, it is, but I mean it maybe they'd qualify through the point system or but there has to be, in my opinion, at least one. We really do need to look at that because right now we're slipping in terms of that as a country. We need to focus on that next generation, giving them that experience, playing those big games on arena ice in the big moments. They need that.

SPEAKER_01 50:30

Right. That I couldn't agree more. And and Jordan and Serena's teams just that's what they need. They need more high-level experience and competition, and they're both more than good enough to compete for playoff spots, not just compete in the Briar. They both could have made the final six and even made a run. So that's a big part of it for sure. You know, we're watching teams go and give up 10 points every end, and Jordan's at home thinking I can't get into this 10 points every game, not end.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

You can't give up 10 points every end.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

Sometimes it felt like they were. I did see a six up there. You know, if that's happening at the club championship, then not who cares. But it's it's about more than that. And I I just feel like there needs to be a bit of a not a separation, that's not the right word. But anyway, um, but what I mean, we've talked about what the key things there. I think we've talked it to death, you know, make some money, support curling, develop the next generation.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

But show everybody the love of our game, like why our game is so great. The patch is really important. Heartstock Lounge was never as big as a patch, and maybe we can change that. The party is important, the atmosphere is important, the in-venue experience is important for that next generation. But we need we need the new next generation of curlers, but also the new next generation of fans. And so it has to be promoted to me differently, and it changes from where you are geographically to how you promote it. But we need to focus on on the in-venue experience, making it fun, the patch, the heartstop lounge, but also having something like there is that the pet the kids can only go in the patch to a certain time. Like, is there other things, experiences that families can have to make sure that they want to bring their families to the curling event?

SPEAKER_01 52:03

Yeah, and and another challenge that historically a lot of the funding's been tied to the briar. Well, if you're a team that can't, you look at Mike McEwen for a lot of years, he couldn't get into the briar because he had to beat Stoughton and those guys.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

Well, on that that's another topic. We give more points to the winner of the Briar than we did do a grand slam, and I just don't understand how that's well the OQE was the ultimate this year, but that's another the points is uh I don't even want to touch that one.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

So let's let's stick with something we can kind of defend. That one's too hard to figure out, but we do have um uh some rock star rapid fire questions, as we are, we do we could talk about this forever and we may revisit it. You know, it was probably it would have been maybe we'll revisit it and have a guest on. Maybe we could get somebody from Curling Canada that's worked there that doesn't anymore, so they could be honest. You think that's possible? Maybe I doubt it. But um here's a question that has come in about the Scotties and Briar, and we've had a lot of those recently. So who actually has the power in deciding what the Briar and the Scotties formats look like?

SPEAKER_00 52:57

Well, it really is Curling Canada, but it also is the member associations. So the provincial and territorial associations have say in how the what the format looks like, how qualification happens and all of that.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

Historically, we've heard they have a lot of say and that they can kind of band together some of the in you know, in quotations, the smaller.

SPEAKER_00 53:17

Maybe they can look at the date of the Scotties as well to ensure that the Olympic team can actually Do you think that men and women should be treated equally? I do.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

I do too.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

So does that mean that Rachel should have had the opportunity to play in the we raised that when we couldn't go to the Scotties um when we were at the Olympic team? And I remember that. So it's been raised, conversations have been had, and the dates never change. So I'm gonna be interested to see if dates will dates will change going forward. Curling Canada and curling in general is very proud of the fact that we do have gender equality.

SPEAKER_01 53:48

Curling greater than that for the most part.

SPEAKER_00 53:50

So I think this is definitely a a topic that needs to be considered, has been discussed, has been raised for many years, and so I'm interested to see what's gonna happen going forward.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

Yeah, and the the other question we were going to answer is what would we like to see the format go to? And that's not really a rapid question, a rapid fire question, but we did kind of say that. And I think we're both similar on the similar page at least of some sort of A and B or Relegation.

SPEAKER_00 54:14

Go back to relegation. Yeah, some form of I want a true round robin. However, whatever that means, we need to go back to true round robin and try to figure it out because the pools aren't working, the pools don't create interest, in my opinion, and we They're too confusing too. Yeah, we we need to get back to that.

SPEAKER_01 54:31

Simple. I'm a cr I'm a simple fella. Kind of, but we'll go with that. Complicated, simple. I'm so simple it's complicated.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

But anyway, thanks for listening. It's not in any ways, but thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_01 54:43

And a ways.

SPEAKER_00 54:44

We send any and all feedback our way as we know that this is a topic a lot of people have opinions on. And at the end of the day, we just want what's best for Canadian curling, for curling in general, as we truly do love the sport.

SPEAKER_01 54:56

We do. We don't just say that. I mean, it's given us the odd thing.

SPEAKER_00 54:58

Well, and our and our kids love the sport. Our kids want to be curlers, and I want to make sure that there's something for them to curl in.

SPEAKER_01 55:03

Yeah, for sure. Selfish. We're back to the selfish. Yeah, we're a little selfish. That's what motivates people. But please don't forget to follow along on socials at B Lang99 on X, at J Jones Curl on Instagram, at Rock Starscurl on Instagram and X.

SPEAKER_00 55:19

Now that we're have a little bit more time, we're gonna focus on trying to have more time, that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

A little bit more a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 55:24

Well, yeah, we do.

SPEAKER_01 55:24

Did you find that eighth day of the week?

SPEAKER_00 55:27

Uh no.

SPEAKER_01 55:27

Okay. But we'll talk about it after as we are racing off to get our kids here shortly. But and please do continue to send us podcast topics about curling. We're not designed just to talk about curling. We do know things about other stuff and have opinions, but it's been a pretty big two-month run for curling and pretty awesome. So, and unfortunately, unfortunately, and very fortunately, Rock League's coming. So we're gonna have to talk a little bit about that too.

SPEAKER_00 55:51

But don't give up on us. We are gonna talk about non-curling stuff as well. We just, with everything going on, curling is just front and center right now.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

Yeah, and fire off you know, those rapid fire questions. I can't promise you we'll get to them all, but I'll promise you that I won't say no just because it's a tough question. Um, so and please do continue to spread the word, you know, like our Facebook page, subscribe, all those things. Tell everyone you know how great it is and how they gotta listen. We're getting lots of great feedback, uh, which is you know means the world to us as we're really enjoying this as we continue to evolve with our tech skills.

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Yeah, and we are gonna set up a beautiful little setting, like a podcast studio type thing. We again probably you. Yeah, we means most of the time.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

That's my name.

SPEAKER_00 56:32

Yeah, so we just haven't got there yet with the Olympics and with everything, but we wanted to make sure we launched because there were so many things going on. So again, be patient and we're gonna get there.

SPEAKER_01 56:42

We are we are gonna do that. I'm so handy, it's ridiculous. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

Not handy, but we're gonna we're gonna work.

SPEAKER_01 56:49

We'll figure it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So, but yeah, we're wrapping up.

SPEAKER_00 56:52

So keep rocking the chaos, chasing adventures, loving the ride, and never stop dreaming. We will see you next time on Rockstars.