Slamming Into Rock League

In this episode of Rock Stars, we’re diving into the exciting launch of Rock League, the first-ever multi-gender curling league. We reflect on the journey curling has taken, from the early days of the Grand Slams to where the sport stands today. We discuss how pivotal players and moments in curling history shaped the growth of the game, and how Rock League is set to elevate it even further. From increased sponsorships to the inclusion of women in the Grand Slams, we’re seeing a massive shift in how curling is viewed, and we couldn’t be more excited about it.

We also talk about what makes Rock League a game-changer: the rule changes, the shorter, faster matches, and the overall fan experience. With some of the best players in the world coming together, this isn’t just about curling, it’s about creating an experience like no other. We can’t wait to see how it all unfolds and how Rock League will help grow the game even more. If you loved this episode, leave us a comment or review and subscribe to keep up with all the action!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Rockstars, the podcast where high performance meets real life.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

I'm Brent Lang, joined by my wife, Jennifer Jones, and this is where we talk about rocks, rings, and everything in between.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

It's about chasing dreams and asking, why not me?

SPEAKER_00 0:14

And figuring out how to keep going when things get hard or hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Sometimes it's just us talking curling, business, family, and parenting.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Sometimes it's bigger conversations about success, pressure, and believing that anything is possible.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

We keep it honest, uplifting, and fun.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

We might even make you laugh.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Because this is about the wins, the losses, and real life in between. Rocks, rings, real life.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

This is Rockstars.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Welcome back to Rockstars. Rocks, Rings, and Real Life. The podcast where a couple of dream chasers open up about chasing big goals, living in the moment, navigating life's highs and lows, and figuring out what comes next together. I'm Olympic champion Jennifer Jones, and as always, I'm joined by my husband and Olympian Brent Lang. Brent, what are we going to be diving into on today's episode?

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Well, it's an exciting topic for us as a couple of curlers. I mean, uh, we're going to talk about two different things that are very related. We're going to figure out how did we end up at Rock League, which is the first ever, it's curling on leash, first ever professional curling league. Happens to be starting. Uh, really, we're in the middle of it when this one's going to launch, I think. I think this one's going to come out the Wednesday of Rock League. So uh can't wait to uh see how that goes. But we're also going to talk about how did we kind of end up here? Where, you know, what started all of this and where did the Grand Slams come from? Because they aren't professional curling, but they are the biggest non-world championship Olympic event in the world with the best teams in the world and have been for a long time. And I think a lot of people, as we get older, the youngsters, they forget. So we're going to remind them today of who they can thank. And unfortunately, it's not me and it's not you. You weren't invited, so that you you you can't really take any heat, but I was invited, and I'll tell that story as well. But that's what we're going to jump into today. As always, before we do, shout out to all of our listeners. If you're loving the show, hit that subscribe button, you know, hit the like button, do all those things, share it with people you know and care about who you think might be interested as well. Follow us on all of our socials at Rockstars Curl on Insta and X, at BLang99 on X, and at J Jones Curl on Insta. It does really mean the world to us because we really enjoy doing this. So, and if nobody's listening, I mean, then we can just turn the mics off because this is how we talk anyway, day to day, pretty much, and this is what we talk about. But let's start with a question, Jen. I'm gonna ask you to kick it off here. How did we get here? You know, what where did the Grand Slams come from? And I know it was, you know, the men's that's men's teams that started off of the day, but how did we get to uh professional curling here in 2026?

SPEAKER_01 2:49

I feel like you're the better person to answer, but I'm gonna start and you can correct me because you're holding that recorded clear as day. I'm good to admit when I'm uh not as in the know as you, but it really did start when a bunch of the men's teams on tour wanted to grow the game. They saw a vision, they wanted to increase television exposure, they wanted to increase prize purse. They really did want to make curling professional. And by doing so, they needed to increase that prize purse. They needed to have more events, more television exposure, increase sponsorship in curling. And in order to do that, they tried, they created these grand sum events. But by doing so, there was some boycotts of some Canadian championships and and other, which you can get into because I feel like you know a lot more about that than than I do. But it's it really was a time where it was a real pivotal time in terms of change. At the time, the women, we really didn't even have any grand slams. We didn't have grand slams at the time. There was no grand slams for anybody. But when it started, it was the men that were invited to these, they were men's events. The women then got to piggyback on those events a few years later while we got invited to the players' championship. But it was really a rally of the men coming together, seeing a vision for what curling could become, trying to grow the game. And that was what created these Grand Slams. And and then you go towards today, the Grand Slams have done very well. Uh, but now it's a question of trying to get that professional league where players get paid to actually play.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Yeah, like a salary instead of just it's always been prize money, right? And so back to how did the Grand Slam start? And it was it was about money, it was about exposure, but it was really about a big thing was sponsorship. All of those top the original 18 slammers, which I'd like to name 18 teams. There's some names that you'll know and some names that especially kids of today, I mean, they might not know who you know, maybe Glenn Howard is by now, but I guess he's still around the game.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

He's still relevant, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Yeah, there's there's lots. Peter Ste. I mean, if you haven't been around the slams, you know, there's there's a name. Uh lots of different Dave Bomer, you know, a legend from Manitoba, Vic Peters, Jeff Stouton, Kevin Martin. You know, I'm not going to go by memory. The the two that didn't the biggest one that didn't sign on was Randy Furby had won the Briar in 2001 when this was all going on. And they decided not to come with uh with the slammers as they became known. And it was controversial, right? Like these these guys got kind of raked over the coals in some ways in the media, very similar to some people are trying to attack Rock League, I think. And the idea of curling becoming bigger and better. I don't know why as a group, as a maybe it's just the loudest few, but as a as a sport, we don't want to evolve. We don't want to get bigger, we don't want to get better, we don't want more opportunities. We didn't want to go. People are mad that curling's grown around the world now. We should have just kept it for Canada. And it's like, get uh get your head out of your ass, really, is what I want to say to those people. But that's really how it how it started. And to do that, they had to boycott the Briar. That was part of the the deal with basically with the television broadcasters at the time. Sportsnet was in from day one, and I don't remember the exact people, and I don't want to name some of the people because they ended up maybe not being on the up and up in the end. But Kevin Martin was instrumental, he deserves a lot of credit. Uh, Glenn Howard, Jeff Stout, and all those guys that were big at the time. Wayne Madaught, obviously a big name at the time, and they deserve a ton of credit. But part of the deal was if you guys want us to put you on TV all the time, you have to give us exclusive rights to you. We we want this to be the only place that people can watch world the world's best curlers. And and it wasn't the world's best at that time. This was Canadian only, it wasn't an international thing at the time.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Oh, right. I forgot about Canadians.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

I forgot about that. Yeah, it was all Canadian teams that that put this together. And so this was the only place. So they had to boycott the Briar. And uh Team Macaulay at the time, and I don't know if this is folklore, and I don't I don't know if Greg, one of the nicest guys ever, is listening, or Brent Pierce, he might listen. He's still a huge part of curling and a big curling fan, but I think they had to even walk away from some funding, like from carding at the time. There was no team, they were the reigning Briar champions in 2000. Furby went on to win in 2001, but they were carded, and I think they walked away from at least one year of A-carding, which at that time in curling, that was I mean, it's a substantial amount of money, but it was because they had to be exclusive, so you couldn't play down, and that's why if you hear people talk about the Asterix Briars, my first Briar was an Asterix Briar. We won Ontario, and at the time, Glenn Howard and Wiane Dal were the best two teams. We went undefeated against both of them in provincials because they weren't there, they didn't enter.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

How come you guys didn't join?

SPEAKER_00 7:22

That's the slam rate. That's a great question. And I'll I'll I'm gonna tell I was thinking about this before we did. I'm gonna tell you the real story. So this is 2001. We had won the world juniors in 1999, so we're just coming out into men's. We weren't really we'd had some success provincially in men's, and I mean like smaller spiels, but we weren't we weren't super highly ranked at the time. We were not in the top 18 teams in the world. We were probably 25th or 30th at the time, and but we did get invited, and we got reached out. Uh Kevin Martin reached out, and we had a mutual sponsor, Bruce Sable. Uh may he rest in peace, unfortunately. Somebody who did as much for curling on the sponsor side of the game as anybody, I think, in the history of the game. A remarkable man. Sponsored a ton of different teams. Team Martin was one and team Morris was one. And uh a feather in our cap, we won Bruce's first world championship, and he told us that. I didn't, he's like, Kevin's never won me one of these, and it was a world junior, so I'd take it with a grain of salt. But anyway, we were back and forth and we were talking about it. It was Joe Franz, Craig Savile, John Morris, and myself were the team, and we didn't know what to do. We wanted to support the players, obviously. We wanted to see, you know, we had the most to gain. We were just coming into men's. I mean, John and Craig and I were 21 years old. Joe would have been probably 26, and our whole careers ahead of us. Of course, we wanted this to happen. And we kind of, when Kevin reached out, we were like, we're not sure, you know, and I don't need to break up the team and how we voted. We did vote and it ended up 50-50, and some of some people have more votes than others, and we ended up not going. Uh, I don't, I know, I'm not gonna say I regret it. It is a regret. I wish we had have gone. I don't know what would have changed, or it's not like we would have would have helped in any big way, but uh, I'll tell you a little bit more about that. But eventually we talked to Kevin and he reached out and he talked to John, and Kevin straight up lied to John and said, if you don't do this, Bruce Savile will not sponsor you again. Like you need to do this. And Bruce was a huge part of our juniors. I mean, giving us the financial support he did allowed us to do what we did in juniors, and he continued to support us into men's when we were at that time and still almost today, teams don't go from juniors to men's and have a lot of success. So he knew it was a project. We did make the trials in 2001, we had some success, but so of course, we're gonna check on that story. We have Bruce's phone number, Kevin. So John called Bruce and Bruce said, Absolutely not, guys. I support you in whatever you do. This is not an easy decision. He was of the same mind. I want to see this work as much as anybody, but you guys got to pick your own, you know, basically pave your own road and pick your own path. And I'll support you whichever way you go. So, long story short, that put a real sour taste in our mouth from the get-go. I mean, that's not, he wasn't the only one involved, but he was the one that kind of reached out and the one we talked to, and he spearheaded it. He did Kevin deserves a lot of credit for getting this thing off the ground. But that's how we ended up not joining. We decided after that, and we did have a 50-50 vote, and you know, we got our coaches involved and stuff as well. And it ended up, there was no animosity one way or the other. It wasn't like, oh, we should have gone from the people who wanted to go and we shouldn't have from the people who didn't. But we decided we were gonna stay and we were gonna play in the briar, and we knew that meant we weren't gonna get into those slams for a while. So that's that's how it started for us.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

It really was a coming together, though, of all these players that that were competitors that may not have even been friends, like not that they were the rivalries then were way better than now. Yeah, they had huge rivalries. So you're thinking about all these people coming together, finding a common ground for the betterment of the game. Like they really saw the vision of what curling could become. And if it wasn't for these slammers, we'll call them, I don't believe that curling would be where it is today. And I think that that's why you not you say re have regret, but to be a part of that, to be a part of that evolution and that change and what they did to really increase the exposure for curling for obviously the men at the time, but then the women also got to kind of uh jump on that not bandwagon, but got got a lot of the upside that happened because of the slammers um with being invited to the slams and the exposure. We curling never would be where it is today without them.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Yeah, there would have been no motivation. Like I said, it was about sponsorship. So you go to the Briar at that time or the Scotties, there's no prize money. They own your likeness, they still kind of do to this day, which is a, you know, at least now they're paying your way and there's some prize money up for grabs. Back then they would pay your way, but you couldn't sell any sponsorship, do anything, and there was zero prize money from that. They developed the slams and you know, wanted to promote the players, wanted to promote the sponsors, bring more money into the game. And I I would guarantee you that you know, curling Canada, no offense to Curling Canada, what's in it for them? Like, what is their motivation to say, yeah, we're not gonna sell your sponsorship anymore? You guys go ahead and do that. Like, they still don't let us do it at the Briar, but they've because of the slams, make no mistake, if it wasn't for slams, there'd be no prize money at the Briar. That started in 2006, was the first year, you know, right after the slams, you know, had started and and created created something pretty cool. And same as Canada Cups and all those things. We we can wear some sponsors at the trials now. You think that wasn't because of the the slammers? Of course it was.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Yeah, a lot of it definitely wasn't. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only time curling was on TV was at the Briar, the Scotties, or the World Championship at the time, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Skins games, and then there was the odd uh I remember watching Peter Stevsky on the London Cable Channel. In Ontario, there was a little bit of curling on local cable, but no, there wasn't anything.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Same in Manitoba, yeah, local, local, but never no national broadcast. So that's how big this was in terms of what it did for curling. Now all of a sudden, all these slams are on television. So we had curling on television where now you can go to sponsors and say we're gonna get a certain number of hours of television coverage, and it was just it, it really legitimized what curlers were trying to do.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Yeah, it absolutely did. And and credit to them. I mean, I I remember another story when we did finally get invited back in. So it was before the boycott was done, they invited us to come to the players' championship. It was in, I think it was in Calgary, and it would have been 2003. And we at by that time we had kind of got up to about sixth in the world playing on the tour, getting some asterisk bonus points at the Briar. We did lose the Briar final, uh, didn't have to play Kevin Martin or Randy. Well, Randy Furby beat us in the final. I mean, the best team won that week, but we had gotten up higher in the rankings, high enough to qualify for the players' championship, which is a big deal, right? Especially at our age. And we'd worked our way up, and there was a lot of people that didn't want us there. And I don't blame them. And one of them was was Pete, Pete Stewart, one of my best friends, and at that time was a good friend as well. And he was on the board and he was of the mind, hey, you guys didn't put in the time and effort and sacrifice to make it happen. Why do you get the spoils? And I was, hey, I we're coming because we want to be there. If you're gonna invite us, John Mead went out of his way to welcome us when we got there because it was, it wasn't like it was hostile, but we knew we if we were in their shoes, we wouldn't want us there. Not only are we young punks, but we're also we're coming in to try and win some money. And you know, I mean, karma's not a bitch in this situation. Like we made it all the way to the final. Where's karma where we come in and just get our ass handed to us and leave with our tail between our legs? But uh yeah, so that was a pretty cool memory as well. It that me coming back into that, and then the slams just kind of carried on from there. And and pretty shortly after that, yeah, they they made some room for the women, invited the women. The slams were side by side.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

You started to call some of your big events slams back then and yeah, we had so what started with the women is when the men started the slams, the women had their slams. And we so we've had a lot more slams than were on Sportsnet. So we had uh we would pick events and they would be our slams, they'd be worth more points, all the best teams went, and so those would be our slams. And then eventually it was determined by SportsNet and by the sponsors that they wanted the women to be included at the slam events on television. And so we are one of the first female sports that had equal television coverage to their male counterparts, which is really amazing for curling. We were very fortunate in that way, and uh and now the women's game draws a really good audience, uh, you know, on par basically with a men's game, which is which is pretty remarkable. So that's kind of the history of where we're at. And then we we went into this slams. The slams have been doing a really good uh job of continuing to promote curling, but the prize purses really haven't increased. We've had a lot more um over the past couple years, like the in-venue experience trying to create uh a bigger profile for these slams. But the the whole idea was to create a professional curling league. And so now that kind of brings us to where Rock League is. And Rock League was launched as the first ever, and it's a multigender, which doesn't I don't even know of another league that's both men's and women's competing kind of together, competing against each other, competing against each other. So this is the first ever, and Rock League is going to be launched uh in Toronto at the Matamine Center. It's a huge moment in curling, one that I actually honestly I always hoped would happen. And when I started curling, really there was nothing. And then I was curling during all of the slammers time, and you saw the evolution of it. I saw the the the increase in the the women in some of these uh in the grand slams and all of those events, and you could see the progress, but you kind of felt like it had reached its limit, like it wasn't gonna go any more than it had. And now we do. I I hope for a professional league, and now it's here. It's very exciting.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

Absolutely, it's exciting. And there were some scary years for the slams, let's be honest. There were years where they were, you know, kind of falling apart at the seams and low on money. And I think it's out there that you know, paying for this this week's winners with next month's event money sponsorship. And then Sportsnet stepped in and bought them. And you know, a lot of credit to Scott Moore and his group. Keith Pelly was still there at the time, and they believed in curling and they built the slams up. And you know, the international team's becoming bigger and bigger in them. It's it's been the best place. If you want to be a world-class curler, you got to get into the slams because that's where the best teams are, that's where the best competition is, and that's where where you can learn. And so it's yeah, they've just been the best events in the world for a long, long time. And the next step was, yeah, some, you know, paid pay to show up, you know, professional, right? And you can you can argue that some of the players these days are professional, but they're not making it any money. They they might be professional in terms of timeline and dedication, but there's not enough money in the game. So there needs to be, if we're going to make a professional, you need somebody as crazy as Nick and his group at the curling group to come in and say, we're gonna raise a ton of money, millions of dollars, and we're gonna pump it into this sport because we believe in the numbers, we believe in the people, we believe that it's been under, you know, really undermarketed for years and years, and we're gonna make some curling stars. And in the meantime, we're gonna attract some new fans to a sport, not just curling fans, but people who want to go to a sporting event. Do you think that's something that's been missing in curling? Like I would go to a football game. I'm not a football fan, but it looks like super or bad football like in Europe, no interest in watching a soccer game, but I'd go to a football game in Europe in a heartbeat. It looks like a great time.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

It's so fun, and we've done that. Like my my our curling team, when we would travel the world, we'd go to all this. We went to sumo wrestling even and just because it, you know, it it was fun and some football games in Europe and just to see the crowd and the energy. And that's what's been created at the slams recently is a really new, renewed energy. But what what's gonna be really amazing about Rock League is it's gonna be an event, it's gonna be entertainment. You're gonna want to go to experience the entertainment and the curling, not that it's secondary, but it's it's a part of the whole entire package. And I I do believe that that's a little bit what was missing for curling that and you said earlier that some fans are they don't want traditional curling to go away. And I I'm a traditionalist as well. Like I love history, I I don't want to change the game so much that you don't even recognize what it is. But I'm also one that's very open to change, if it's going to increase and improve something. And curling has done amazing things and it's grown, but it's been very static over the last number of years. So if we want to evolve the game, and it has evolved around the world, but if we want to evolve the game and take it to the next level, become professional, have the non-curling fans become curling fans, then we need to evolve. Curling is what it is today into something that a new fan, a non-curling fan, is excited to go and be a part of.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Yeah, I think there's no question. And I hope that the original 18 Slammers are watching and thinking we started this because it was. And that's what the slams started as. It was more about the entertainment value. It wasn't just about, you know, who's the champ? We're we're, you know, deciding who's going to be Team Canada and how how are we going to market that team or whatever they were doing at the Briar and the Scotties at the time in the World Championships. It became about curling as a commodity, curling as something that people would pay to see and something that sponsors would pay to get involved with and partnerships and those types of things. So the natural evolution of that was you know, curling Rock League, curling unleashed. And that's that's where we're headed. The idea of it is made for TV, but it is still curling. It's it's entertainment first, but with the best curlers in the world. And why I just can't find the negative in that. It's not, we're not trying to, like you said, we're not trying to stop the traditional game. But I think once people see this and see the formats and similar to the slams, I don't know many people who say, well, the slams are way more boring to watch than the Briar games. It's like, no, it's the exact opposite. Because of the small tweaks in the rules, maybe it's a little faster. Rock League will touch on some of the rules and why. Uh, but in terms of most of it is to make it more exciting, to make it a little bit faster, tighter time window for TV, and just a better overall fan experience in venue because we've been missing that for a while.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

Well, and there's gonna you can go right on the ice, like be right next, not on the ice surface, but on the Streaker.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

You could.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

I don't know. But like right down there, you're gonna be in the action. You're gonna have, you can walk kind of around and just feel like you're really a part of it. There's gonna be a bar. Um, it's it's just gonna be a really great, fun atmosphere. I highly recommend if anybody's in the area, it's at the Matamine Center, go and check it out in Toronto. It's gonna be an event like no other, and just really to see what it looks like. TV, yes, it's great, but sometimes it doesn't give you that sense of really how amazing and fun and vibrant the actual venue experience is. And then there's gonna be entertainment, I believe, at in the evenings, and it's just really more of a festival. Festival, festival, sorry, um than any kind of curling experience we've ever had. So super excited about it. We have the top players from around the world that are gonna To be there, but also the top personalities. So you look at the people, how they're going to drive, the the players that like to have fun, enjoy themselves, but can also make a ton of shots. You're going to see a ton of great shot making in a very fast-paced environment. There's more timeouts, so more interactions with the coaches, which I kind of like. Um, right now, curling coaches really don't have a lot of involvement in the game. Uh, and you know, you look at other sports, they're talking to their coach on the bench, NFL coaches are going up and down the sidelines. That's what we're gonna see. These GMs, these coaches for these franchises, they're gonna be more involved in the action, more involved in the strategy, being out there substitutions potentially. It's gonna be uh it's gonna be quite entertaining.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

All right. So we've established it's gonna be a party. We've established there are some rule changes. It's gonna be like a festival, not a festival, a festival, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:50

We have a festival de voyager in Winnipeg. So I'm a festival kind of girl, but no festival for sure. Yes, it's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

And you mentioned some some rule changes, and there are I wouldn't say there's many, but there are a few. But I think more than the specifics of it, uh, what are the kind of some of the reasons? Let's talk about some of the reasons on why formats are different. We've never seen this format before and why the rule changes. Can we talk kind of high level on that first, you think?

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Yeah, no, for sure. I I think one is that we're trying to make the game a little bit faster for a variety of reasons. One to get in a shorter TV time window. Uh so there's gonna be seven ends. I like it. Instead of eight. Right. The people are gonna some people are gonna hate that. Right? Because it's not traditional, but there's seven ends, it's still curling, it's seven ends of curling. Uh, there is no extra ends because again, uh trying to fit into that time window. So it's gonna be a draw to the button, very exciting, so much drama. Uh as you know, we've witnessed in the grand slime of curling events when we tried the draw to the button. It's it's very dramatic. So that should be really entertaining. And then less time with more timeouts. So the teams will be allotted less time.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

21 minutes for seven ends for the fours.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

But I think the reason behind that is when whenever I talk to curling fans, the traditional curling fan, and that would probably be me. I'm more of a traditionalist, I would say, uh, really enjoys the game how it is. They love listening to the strategy, they love all that. And we kind of talked a little bit about that. But the new curling fan doesn't really quite not necessarily even understand, but they're not as engaged in the strategy. They want to see the shots being played, they lose their attention span when there's long discussions about stuff that that they potentially don't understand.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Yeah, more more action, right? I mean, I don't have to understand what I'm watching, it just has to be entertaining. And I think, but back to the the time and the two hours, and that's coming directly from potential broadcast partners. And we've we've seen and heard that before, and I know everybody's gonna say, well, there's lots of other sports that are three and four hours, and it's like we are not the NFL yet. Will we ever get to be the NFL? Probably. Probably not. Let's be let's be real, but we can get closer. I'm a dreamer, and it doesn't matter if the NFL is four hours long because people make a whole day of it. It's like a religion in some places. But for curling, trying to break in that the networks are saying we want it in two hours, so we have to find a way to get it in two hours if we want to be on bigger networks. We had that Everest North American challenge on CBS sports. That's huge for curling, you know, on a big sports station in the US. But they said you have two hours, and if you go over two hours, people aren't going to see the end. So we've we've worked as hard as we can as a group to figure out all of the things that may happen. And I'm, you know, I like I said, when this episode comes out, we'll be a couple of days in. And hopefully we haven't been run out of town yet and things are are going well. We've we've given it a lot of thought, but that's the why behind the the two hours. And we just didn't think that eight ends, you were gonna get eight ends in for sure in two hours. So seven ends. And for those of you who you know, we had the same pushback and went from ten to eight. It's like, well, if you give up a deuce in the first end, you know, you don't have enough time to get back in the game. And it's like, okay, well, let's just step back for a second. Okay, in an eight-end game, if you give up a deuce in the second end, is the game over? You're down two-nothing playing the third. Well, I never think it's over. So it's definitely not. Exact same situation as starting a seven-end game. So there's still lots of time. We see lots of comebacks in the last three or four ends. We've also added some more exciting things to try and keep you know games alive, and one of those is no tick shots anywhere. You can't move guards. The free guard zone was was designed for what? Offense. Players got too good, too smart. They're always gonna outsmart us eventually, whoever's making the rules. And that's why you got to make some some tweaks. But the idea was to generate offense, and now there's they've found ways, you know, the tick shots, so then there's no ticks when it's touching center line. And now they're ticking corner guards. Used to tick it into the house, which sucked, but now ticking it and rolling in that shooter in the house is even worse from a defensive standpoint. So, again, all in the idea of entertainment value first. The players are still amazing players, best in the world. You're still gonna see a ton of great shots, you're gonna see lots of exciting games. And one little caveat that I don't know how it's going so far in the week, but I I will look back on this podcast and say, I am probably most interested to see how the two-point button goes. Interested, nervous, excited, all those things. Unsure. We'll say I don't know. I don't know what's gonna happen with that. Because in the last end of every game, if you're covering the paint at the end of the end, it's a it's two points. One stone can score two points.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

Yeah, that'll be something you definitely reflect on at the end of the event. But you know, there's a lot of naysayers, and but I look at it from a from a fan perspective. So we're baseball fans, we like baseball.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Yeah, I love it now. I know where you're headed.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Yeah, we really do enjoy baseball and we'll watch throughout the season, especially in the playoffs. Big Blue Jays fans, go Jays, you know, it was super exciting last year. But I really, really enjoyed the rules that they implemented. The pitch count to make sure clock is called. Or the fact that you can't throw over to first base so many times because it was just so slow to watch. And at times I would lose my focus, and I'm a pretty focused person, but I would lose my focus and I would go and do something else. So it has worked for baseball. Um I believe it's made the game better. So even traditional baseball fans, they might not like it, but it's helping to grow the game and helping get new fans to come to the game. So that is the overall picture of what uh these rules are trying to achieve. So let's have an open mind.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Well, some some will, some won't, but uh either way, you know, it's it's happening and it's it's for all the right reasons. We're not nobody's saying that we've got it all figured out. You know, some things will stick and some things won't, just like changes at all the slams, the rules over the years. Some have been great and really improved our game, and some have been, you know, kind of thrown in the corner after after trying them. But talk about the formats a little bit. I think the the main thing is the main difference is it's franchises. So for the first time ever, you can cheer for a jersey and not just the player. So Team Jones is one thing, but you know, Team Maple United is a different thing. I can have that jersey, or you know, I can show up in my Typhoon jersey, and no matter who's playing for that team, I can still cheer for, you know, I'm I'm for whatever reason, I love the Typhoon franchise. Maybe I'm born in that you know, that region of the world or I live there. I just love that the logo. I mean, it's something as simple as you love the players on a team, but the players can change, and it's like regular professional sports where I'm stuck cheering for the Leafs even though they suck. Just because I'm a Leafs fan and because my dad was a Leafs fan, and I don't know how you get out from under that. That's I need therapy and I need some help. But that idea in curling to me is pretty cool. And being able, we've always said, well, let's buy a Jennifer Jones jersey, and it's like, well, you can, but Jennifer Jones might have a different sponsor next year. And your your sponsors didn't change often, but some do, and then the jersey can be a totally different color, and you show up in your old one, and everybody's like, What's that? So that that's pretty cool, I think. And I and I think with that franchise idea, we have these matches, it's not just games, it's a match, an overall match. So three games at one time, you know, two franchises playing against each other in men's fours, women's fours, and mixed doubles. Win two out of three, you win the match, win all three, you get a bonus half point. That's pretty cool too. The sweep, the match sweep. And we've got uh we don't have officials, we have uh Supreme Ice Commanders. That's what Craig and I are going by. So Craig and I are out there, not to be officials. I think like in any sport, the best officials are invisible. If you know the name of the umpire, it's not because they did a great job. If you know the name of the referee, I mean some people will know our names because we've been around curling, but we want to be invisible out there. Our our whole goal is to just be out there as you know, to answer questions for the GMs or players, but we don't want to make any calls. The players don't need our help, you know. And if they do, if there's something that they can't decide, the only thing they're gonna need our help on is we're gonna have hog line challenges. And I don't know how that's gonna go either.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Do we have cameras on the hog line?

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Of course. Well, no, I'm not sitting on it. I'm never doing that. I'm not gonna be the hogline judge, but I'm gonna be called on to have a look at a camera and make a call pretty quickly. And again, with the time, we'll see how that goes. But that's an interesting one too, and I think that's I don't think, I know that's kind of Olympic related potentially. The old little controversial boot gate or something. We gotta have a better name than that. You know, so the the Canada-Sweden thing. But uh Yeah, other than that, I mean I'm just super excited to see how it all plays out. GMs, like you said, have a bigger role. They gotta make some decisions, they gotta put together the lineups, they can make player changes, you can change the order during a game, and there will be some substitutions too. You'll have some bench strength for you always have not always a lot of times you have a fifth player, but very rarely do you put a fifth player in to change the momentum of the game or to do something other than get them in to a blowout where they're gonna get the Scotty's jewelry or gonna get to play at the Olympics or whatever you you know, you you kind of want to lose your last game, so you put on your fifth player, so you get a different semifinal. Does that ever happen? I don't know. What do you mean? You don't know? Okay, maybe it never happens. But uh yeah, so that's that's what's going on. But what did I miss? Any any rules? Like what are you most excited for? What rule change or format going into Rock League? What has you most intrigued?

SPEAKER_01 32:17

Well, I mean, we still have the the only one blank uh per team per game. So I like offense. I love the no-tick rule. That's gonna be awesome, in my opinion. Trying to create a little bit more offense. We'll see how it works out, and maybe some adjustments to that rule will have to happen where we even have no takeouts for the first few rocks of the the old Moncton rule. We'll see, but then you might just see all the rocks in the house. You never know how it's gonna evolve and transform. But I do really like the no-tick rule. People have asked, how are you gonna monitor that? It's gonna be up to the players to you can really tell if a stone does hit a guard, and if it does touch that guard, then it's up to the non-offending team to decide what they want to do with it. So I'm really excited about that. The two-point button, I'm not sure how that's gonna work. Um, it may uh help a team tie the game to go to that draw to the button. I do really enjoy watching the draw to the button. I'm a big extra end fan as a player, so I've become a draw to the button fan.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Right, but it's you're watching it at the slams. It's exciting. It's the one thing, it's the most memorable moments I've had at the Grand Slams this year when we were in Tahoe and Dunstone, you know, he didn't make that double and he've he didn't love the draw of the button. He's been open about that. But he did admit, give him credit hey, I missed a double to win, and I should have made that shot. We should have won. But then it goes to a draw of the button to win a Grand Slam. And maybe that's not what the original slammers, the 18 teams thought was going to happen down the road, but I can tell you that was as exciting of a finish as you've seen. And then it was so close, both you know covered the pin, but one was a little bit closer. And so, yeah, people don't always love it, but change is hard.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

No, it's it it definitely uh it's fun for the fans. So I I'm excited for those, for those rules for sure, and just to see how though all the dynamics work, we have players playing positions they don't normally play for different skips, uh different sweeping combinations. We're gonna see how that all works. I am excited also for the GMs to have more of a say. I've always felt that the coaches should have more input into a curling game, which they don't really have. So I'm interested to see how what their perspective is on the best team they can put on the ice. And if a player is struggling, will they have the guts? Will they have the courage to pull that player or to make a player adjustment in terms of the lineup within uh within that game? So though the drama, I'm looking forward to the drama of it all. And then also just the fun atmosphere, having the fans close as a player, the louder the better. You I always loved the louder the better, the more fans, the more engaged they were, the more fun it is to compete. And I think that this format, the way that's gonna be set up is really gonna be uh fan-friendly and create a very energetic atmosphere.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Yeah, no doubt. It's it's gonna be a party. I mean, and some of the naysayers are saying, well, you're ruining curling, it's not supposed to be a party. And it's like, well, it's supposed to be fun, it's supposed to be entertainment, and that's what this is all made for. Every decision has, if there's a I'm open. If people want to come at me on Twitter, you know, at Beeline99 or at Rockstars Curl, and you want to know why we did something, there's a reason. And I'm not saying again that we're always, you know, that the committees and everybody's always going to be right. There's gonna be things that we get wrong and we're gonna we'll make those adjustments, but there's always a reason why. That's always been kind of a a guiding principle for me. And even at work in business in life, if if it's if I'm gonna defend something or if I'm gonna make a decision, I you know, especially at work, I always tell people if you if you want to know why, there will be a why, otherwise, we won't do it that way anymore. There has to be some type of reason. And again, I'm not always gonna be right.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Yeah, and for all the naysayers, you obviously love curling, you're engaged, you're talking about it. Why not come out, see what it's all about? Uh, I always say you can't judge a book by its cover, you have to come and see what it's all about. So many people are excited about it, but I encourage everybody to keep an open mind and know that uh all it's gonna do is grow the game, grow the game that we love.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

Well, we hope so and and give kids something to strive for. I think that's a big thing that we haven't touched on is, you know, if you're a kid growing up and you can watch curling on TV more now than ever, which you can. And now there's professional curling where it's you know, I'm gonna grow up and I'm gonna say I want to play on one of these teams and whatever your favorite, you know, your favorite team is. I think the coolest logo, I'll I'll go on record to say I think Frontier's logo is kind of the coolest.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

You like Frontier?

SPEAKER_00 36:28

I do. I just think it looks pretty awesome. I mean, the bear, you know, Maple United's kind of cool too, but I think Frontier, uh I really like Alpine. Yeah, but if I had to pick a team, I don't know. I I can't pick a team. I don't want to put myself out. No Langer's locks. Uh I'm an official, so I can no longer influence games the way the way that I did. But uh I think we're we're kind of wrapping up here. It started with the Grand Slams and how that started. And like I said earlier, I hope that all the slammers are proud of what they've done. Um, because you know, years ago, and I think I I hope that some of these people in Rock League realized that it was those it it happened to be men at that time, and that's neither here nor there. That's just how it happened that they got together. You know, there was 18 of the top 20 teams in the in the world, really, at the time. I mean, probably not all of them. There would have been some internationals, but the originals they were called, the slammers, as they became known. And some started and then kind of tweetered back to the into the briar. But really, I I would like to name them all. And I I did some research, and you know, there's some conflicting conflicting news uh on online as there usually is. Uh, but uh I I'm gonna go through and because I personally would like to thank them. I know that this is a big reason why we've been able to do some of the things we've been able to do in curling and why we've been able to finance it through sponsorship is because we're on TV so much because of these slammers and and what they gave up. So I mentioned Dave Bomer early, the bomber. Uh ran in him at Canadian Seniors recently, Carrie Burtnick, of course, Pierre Charette. Nobody has been at more Grand Slam games than Pierre Charrett, and that's one of those like Wayne Gretzky uh records, like just untouchable. His assist record, his point record. Nobody's gonna touch that. Nobody's gonna watch more Grand Slam games than Pierre Charrett. Uh, I don't think that's up for debate. Glenn Despens, Dale Dugood, Bert Gretzinger, name from the past, Glenn Howard, Bruce Corte, both the Liburn brothers, Alan and Willie, Kevin Martin, Greg Macaulay, Wayne Madaugh, Kevin Park, Brent Pierce, Vic Peters, Peter Stesky, the one and only. And he was on the board back then, and uh, and Jeff Stoughton. So, and in talking, I was actually texting with Pete a little bit, trying to corroborate some of my stories here. And he thought that um Rich Moffat was in there, and I think he was too, because he wasn't in the provincials that we won. That's the Asterix provincial we won. So some teams changed in and out, but that was, you know, if we've missed anybody, let us know. Please correct us because I think this is super important. And I hope, I hope that if any curlers are listening, especially those in Rock League and those around, especially in Canada and that enjoy the slams. If you run into these people and you will run into Glenn, you know, take a second and say thanks because they did give up a lot. And I know that there was something in it for them. It wasn't just out of the kindness of their heart, some more than others. But you look at some of those teams that weren't, you know, going to win a lot of money in those slams, and I'll pick on Pete because his name's still on the screen, Pete Stesky. Like they were a good team, but they weren't gonna win very many grand slams. He did it for the right reasons. He knew that it was the right thing to do and wanted curling to grow and wanted the players to have more avenues for sponsorship and everything like that. So that's what I definitely wanted to say that, and I wanted to make sure we got all the names in there because it is a pretty cool part of curling history, and it's now 25 years ago, 25-year anniversary this year, I believe. So we've kind of touched on a couple of the rock star rapid fire questions, Jen. What are you most excited about for Rock League? Favorite rule change, who has the strongest franchise? We're not gonna pick sides, are we? It's not good on that. I'll do it after next week, you know, after it's after it's over, you know, and it's not gonna be next week.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Well, it's gonna be interesting too, because a lot of the some of the men are coming from the world, so is fatigue gonna be an issue? They haven't had a lot of time to practice as a unit, so it's gonna be also interesting to see how that evolves and how they work together.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

And how will the Canadian fans, and this is a serious question, is there gonna be any backlash for Oscar? I'm not sure. I'm not gonna say if it's fair or not, doesn't matter. I I think there might be some some somethings. Who knows? I mean the bar's on the ice. Yeah. So that's uh that ain't takes the chance. Oh, he can definitely take it. I'm not worried about him. I just was curious. Uh but yeah, so and I think for me, I agree with you. Favorite rule, if I had to pick one, I I've been a and you know this because you have to live with me, I've been long a proponent of no ticks anywhere. Let's keep the guards in play, let's get things started. And when you couple that with the one blank rule, I think we have a really good format that's going to be super exciting. Obviously, we have a ton of great players from all around the world. Do you know how many countries are represented?

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Not off the top of my head, but a lot.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

We have New Zealand. Yeah, I was just thinking of Anton. That's why I was asking Korea, Japan, Switzerland, Scotland, Sweden, or you already said Sweden, Scotland, Italy, Norway. Yeah, it's all over the US, obviously, Canada.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

It's yeah, it's in it's incredible. It's it's just really a great representation of all the tremendous players that we have. Um, Germany is also represented. Oh yeah, Mark Sedovitz is in there. So lots of lots of talent, lots of people to cheer for. And I and I know like one other question we have is why change curling? And I think we've answered that. Like, why why do you want to have the different rules, the different formats? And it's because we're trying to evolve. We're trying to evolve and change and grab those new fans.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

And we're of I mean, sometimes people come at us on social media like we're the the bosses, and we're a very small part of a big team. Like this is the curling group, and it's not we're not in charge here, folks. We're doing our part and and offering you know advice when people ask and doing what you know, whatever's asked of us because we want to see this succeed.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

But uh Yeah, when we say we, I just meant curling and judges. No, I'm just gonna curling. Um, and and that's why you you go out there and you just I just want curling to succeed. We have daughters who love the game, and I want the game to be around for many years to come and thriving and growing and creating so many opportunities for these young people, these young athletes to to realize their dreams. So selfishly, I think I personally would like curling to succeed for prosperity, like to continue and to grow, to evolve.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

And if you're not growing, you're dying. That's a that's just kind of a a rule in life, and it's the same for sport and for business. And so you need to evolve. You need to, if if it gets stagnant, which I I can't think of many people that don't think that in a lot of ways curling has become pretty stagnant. Uh we we want it to grow and we want it to to evolve and become more attractive to more people, get more young people, make it a a sport that people choose instead of sometimes fall back to when other things don't work out. Let's let's get curling where it belongs. Because that once people try it, people love it. But we need it to be more accessible. And that starts, I think that it's always, you know, Tiger Woods isn't a great guy to talk about right now. But what he did for golf was you saw somebody that you could relate to or liked for whatever reason, playing a game that was not traditionally accessible to very many, and then through that 25 years that he dominated the game, or 20 years or 15, you know, golf exploded. So we need that in curling. And maybe it's let's let's give it to Brad Jacobs. Is that our guy? Or is it Rachel or who is it? Or is it an international? Maybe it's Alina, maybe who knows? Yeah. A star will be born. We will see before the end of this week when the event's over.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

But what we want is after the week, after you've had a chance to watch, you can watch on CBC Jam, on Rock Chat channel, on CBC on the weekend. So watch, absorb, and then send in questions and comments and and just see what everybody loved, what everybody didn't love. And I'd be interested to I'd actually really be interested to know that.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

But send the positive ones to Jen and bring the negative ones in there.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

I can take it. Thank you very much for tuning in uh to our podcast. Keep rocking the chaos, chasing adventure, loving the ride, and never stop dreaming. We will see you next time on Rockstars.