The Real Cost of Chasing Olympic Dreams

Welcome back to Rock Stars! Today, we share what it really costs to attain the highest level of the dream you’re chasing. Looking back on our own experiences, we reflect on the way we’ve built our lives around chasing something bigger than ourselves. We talk about the realities behind elite sport, from the finances to the career choices and tradeoffs that happen along the way. We also get into the parts people don’t always see, including family life and the emotional side of staying committed to a dream over many years. 

Stay tuned for more on:

• The financial costs of competing at the top level of curling
• Stories from our early years on tour and the creative ways we found to keep chasing our passions
• Jen’s experience balancing a legal career with Olympic goals
• What high performance asks of a family and how we’ve created our own version of normal
• Our commitment to staying fully present for our lives
• Why we believe there’s value in choosing your passions even when it’s difficult

Whether your goal is in sport, business, family, or something completely different, we hope this episode reminds you that big dreams are rarely easy, but they can be worth it. If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a like and a comment with your thoughts. Until next time, stay committed to your dreams!

Instagram: @Rockstarscurl // Jennifer: @‌jjonescurl // Brent: @‌brent.laing.99
Facebook: Jennifer Jones // Official Team Jennifer Jones
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Youtube: @‌RockStarsJonesLaing
LinkedIn: Brent Laing LinkedIn

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Rockstars, the podcast where high performance meets real life.

SPEAKER_01 0:05

I'm Brent Lang, joined by my wife, Jennifer Jones, and this is where we talk about rocks, rings, and everything in between.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

It's about chasing dreams and asking, why not me?

SPEAKER_01 0:14

And figuring out how to keep going when things get hard or hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Sometimes it's just us talking curling, business, family, and parenting.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Sometimes it's bigger conversations about success, pressure, and believing that anything is possible.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

We keep it honest, uplifting, and fun.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

We might even make you laugh.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Because this is about the wins, the losses, and real life in between. Rocks, rings, real life.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

This is Rockstars.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Welcome back to Rockstars. Rocks, Rings, and Real Life, the podcast where a couple of dream chasers open up about chasing big dreams, living in the moment, navigating life's highs and lows, and figuring out what comes next together. I'm Olympic champion Jennifer Jones, and as always, I'm joined by my husband and Olympian Brent Lang. Brent, what are we talking about on today's episode?

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Well, Jen, I'm glad you asked. Today we're going to talk about the real cost of chasing Olympic dreams. So maybe financial costs, maybe emotional costs, maybe lifestyle, relationships. We're going to touch it all because I think a lot of people are uh are curious what it's actually like. So that's what uh that's what we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Okay. But before we jump in, I think a quick shout out to our listeners is in order. If you're loving the show, hit that subscribe button and leave us a review. And as always, follow us on our social at Rockstars Curl on Insta and X, and at BLang99 on X and at Jane Jones Curl on Insta. It truly does mean the world to us.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

We're still not great at monitoring those uh socials. Our personal ones were not bad. I mean, for us, but uh so if we're not reaching out to you on those and your sentence message, I've just realized I haven't checked it in a little bit, but I will.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Keep going. We will get better. It's a work in progress.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

We're not perfect, but we're getting better. So let's start with uh the financial cost. So talk to me a little bit, Jen, about you know, we're we're gonna talk about curling, obviously, but I think a lot of sports are gonna be very similar. I mean, depending on how much you travel and all those types of things, but a lot of Olympic sports require a lot of travel, you know, World Cup events. And uh our World Cup events are the World Curling Tour. So tell me a little bit about the cost of travel and competition, Jen.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Well, it's expensive. True.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

I did say a little bit. I did say a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Yeah, no, it's it's very expensive. It's uh, you know, and costs, as you know, are just going up and up and up, and they're just it's just all out of pocket costs. I know even with our kids entering into competitive sports and just how much of an investment it is if you're I know some of the hockey parents when they're putting in summer programs and all these extra skates and and trying to find a way to to have their kid live out their dream, but also be fiscally responsible. I almost think it's impossible. It just feels like it's just a never-ending money pit. And I know for for curling, you have the cost of your flights, your hotels, all the food you're eating on the road, getting to and from the airport, your coach coming, all the camps you do, physio trying to work out and train. It it definitely is uh is a very high item on the budget line.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Yeah, and I was thinking about this as we were putting this together, and you know, we used to, and I still say to people, you know, a season's about 100, 125, and I've even boosted it to 150. But then I started doing some math, and those are based on like $100, $110 hotel rooms. You know, flights used to be returned, five or six hundred bucks. Entry fees are the one thing that haven't changed much, and I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

It's prize money.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

No, that's maybe that's those are related because a lot of times we're playing for our own money until you get into kind of the slams where there's some sponsorship. But I did a little bit of quick math, and I think we're safe to double what I've always said. Like I think a real tour season for a team, and this is a Canadian team, not really going overseas. You go overseas, things change, or if you're coming from overseas to Canada, I don't even want to know what their budgets are. But uh I think it's a couple hundred thousand dollars all said and done. Probably two fifty is what you need if you really want to do what you need to do to be at the top, top level. Now you can do different things to save some money and save some costs to get there, but once you get there, if you want to stay there, that's kind of what it takes. That's what it costs on the financial side.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

So when we were younger though, like you can, we would all we do four to a room.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Oh yeah. No, and I that's that's one of my next points. Four to not just four to a room, four to a shitty room, like any room. We had a room one time in Brockville, and I don't know if I've told this story on the pod before, but we checked in. It was a motel. Let's call it what it was. But I think it was about 69 bucks a night. Coincidentally, there were nudie magazines under the mattress. And uh, we were pretty young and found that we had a king bed and a pullout. Like this is not this is what you do. I remember another story. John and Craig and Juniors brought canned food. Uh, I don't know if I'm gonna get them jail time, but I think they were siphoning gas from other cars, you know, trying to save some bucks.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

No, they were not.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm not kidding about canned food though. Uh, but yeah, all those things, you know, the the cheap hotels, you try and find you even maybe sometimes book connecting flights. Uh until you you you know you have some sponsorship, you have some funding, have some support, you gotta find a way to do it. Team Jacobs used to drive from Sault Ste. Marie to anywhere USA, anywhere Ontario, you know, drive the whatever it would be, like 10 hours probably to Brockville, four of them in a car, just to get there for four or five days and stay forward to a room just because they had a dream and they wanted to be where some of the top teams were, and I think it worked.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

No, it definitely did. We used to bring food too. I remember going to a couple of events and you'd kind of have a budget every day of how much you could spend on food. We would bring Lipton cup of soup, you boil water, and instant meal, and then all of a sudden I I remember and I probably have shared the story before, but all of a sudden you're in Ontario and it's a tradition to buy the other team a drink if you win.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

And that was not built into our budget.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Well, and you were that's the story goes the Ottawa hunt where the drinks at that time were probably still 10 bucks. They're probably 20 bucks now. But one cost that people don't talk about that I wanted to ask you about specifically, uh, especially because your background is, you know, you you're a lawyer by by trade. What about career opportunities?

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah, and I think, you know, I I always say I believe I curled in the best of times where you could do, you could do both. I was able to finish law school and still curl during law school and find a way to to to go and get a job and be employed with a great group of people. I'm still gonna be forever grateful for them to give me the opportunity, to give me the flexibility to continue to pursue my dreams and at the same time have a career. But I'm not sure that that's really available anymore. It's it's uh the events are longer. You're going, you're gone a lot longer than you are. Everybody's training full time, and if you're not putting in the hours, it's very hard to compete at that level. So you almost have to push that career back a few years before you get started. And and I always felt very grateful that I was able to pursue my career at the same time that I was pursuing my curling dreams.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

And then specifically, and you you love talking about specifics, especially when it's about money, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Not really, no.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

Would you be making more or less money right now if you didn't curl and you just stuck to law?

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Oh no, I would definitely be in a better financial position if I was just a lawyer for sure. And uh curling, as much as people think there's there really isn't a lot of money in curling. Like you can't, you really can't sustain yourself long term. You could try to have a family, you can't you it's just there's not enough economics really behind it to to support that. So you have to have another job to make it so you can buy groceries, which is good. But because I wasn't doing what I was doing full time and I tried to find flexibility, you do sacrifice some career goals. I had some goals um from a career perspective when I first started out. You know, I wanted to be partner, I wanted to be doing all of these things. And I think I I really do believe I would have achieved those goals. And I decided that I wanted to also pursue my curling goals, so you kind of had to pivot a little bit and find different ways to do both. Um, but no, we would be much better off financially. Like I'm glad you're not even not even close.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

I don't think it would change much for me, but if I did not curl. Right? Yeah, well, there's a reason that you know Brad Gushu sold his soul to the United States. If he could retire, he would retire. But no, not many people would have been more financially and you know successful in curling than Brad, but he's taken a job. He's 45 years old and curled for the last 25 years and done really, really well, but he's taken a job. That's what he that's what it is. It's part of the motivation is money. He doesn't have enough to retire, not even close, I would imagine. And he's had successful businesses outside of that. I'd say outside of curling, he's also been one of the more successful full-time curlers.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Yeah, no, for sure. And it's just not, yeah, as much as they announce like money on TV, it doesn't really take into account all the expenses. So it's like a it's like I don't want to compare it to gambling because it's not gambling, but you know, when a gambling plays when somebody gambles, they say, Oh, I won $5,000, but it's like but it cost me $7,000 to win that five.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

It cost me $15,000 to go to Vegas for four days, and I won five. I'm up five.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Yeah, so the net is not really there. Um, but I mean I wouldn't really change it. I love the experiences that we have, and looking back on my life, um, all the the incredible experiences, I think it changed me as a person. Um, I'm so grateful for every opportunity. But yeah, as we I see, I don't feel like we're close to retirement. But as we get older, and it's not retirement.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

You don't feel close enough to financial freedom though.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Yeah, you don't feel old, but no, I well, no, I was gonna say, but then all of a sudden you're just like looking at it saying we we just can't financially do that. So I feel like we're gonna work for a while.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yeah, yeah. No, we're not done working yet. Yeah. So if anybody has any opportunities for us, send them, send those our way too. Always looking for for business opportunities. But so follow-up question to that, as as we know it's gotten way more expensive. And and like you said, that the events are twice as long. Like these these teams are going to you know, events for eight nights. We used to go to slams on sometimes we'd fly in on Thursday.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

Well, that was before the women were included. So I can't argue that.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

What if some the good no, I won't say that. No, no, I'm kidding. It's way better with the women involved. It's a way better event, but it's you know, eight eight days in a hotel, that's double the days, and then you double the rate. I think two times two is four. So it's quadruple the hotel bill. The old hotel bill that was a thousand to fifteen hundred is now probably you know six grand, five grand a lot of weeks.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Well, it depends if you bring your coach and if you have the other people involved, like you're on you have to pay for all of that. But so do you think Ali curling has quietly become too expensive or inaccessible for for many people?

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Yes and no. Nobody starts at the top as much as people love to talk about well, if I had the sponsorship that Team Jones had, I would be where Team Jones is. And it's like that's not how it works. If I had the salary of the CEO of Royal Bank, I would be that rich. And it's like, but there are steps to get there. You know, you didn't have sponsorship when you came straight out of juniors. Correct me when I say something wrong. You you will, I know, I don't have to ask you. You had to go out and you had to find ways to to put money in a bank account. That's what it used to be at the start of the year, be okay, guys. You know, and we would have you know pony up five grand, which at the time I didn't have five grand to put into a bank account, and then you go and hopefully you win some money, and it goes back in. It's like, okay, you either have to pony up again if you're not doing well, or or maybe we can pay for the next event, and and then you find some success, and you don't find it, you earn some success, and then you start to say to sponsors, hey, we were on TV at the slams, and that's why the slams have been so important, and TV is so important with sponsors and all those things. And you know, you start to do really well with a couple of events where you host some stuff for your sponsors and make a name and give them some value back, you know, and then you start to get some sponsorship.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Without the TV time, uh curling would not be it was donations, and that was all we looked for in the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

We had sponsors in juniors, you know, you get five hundred bucks here, a thousand bucks there, and it was nice people who wanted to support us who, yes, they had businesses, they put their names on our jackets, but it wasn't uh there was no return on investment for that.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Now if you sponsor you still, though, your sponsors are not even covering your season, so it's not like not for most people for sure. No, and so it it it it is you're doing it for the love of the game, really, rather than and chase dreams um rather than you're you're not really gonna make money.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

No, but I I don't think it's too expensive because I think curling is still one of the cheapest sports available. Like you can join a curling club for four or five, six hundred bucks and you can play literally every day if you want.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

No, and I and I believe that. I I you know you look at especially kids sports because our kids are playing all kinds of sports and the cost of hockey or dance or gymnastics compared to curling, it's not it's not even in the same sentence, really. Like it's completely but it's it's more more so if you want to get to that elite level, you know, you see so many of these great junior curlers not really taking that next step to w men's and women's. And I wonder sometimes if cost is one of the reasons.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Sure it is. Uh I think the biggest reason is they're not willing to do what it takes. And one of the things that it's okay. That's well, it is if it is as long as you're not going to complain about it for the rest of your life and say what what could have been and I could have been and all that other BS excuse stuff. But one of the things that it takes is you have to give up some financial opportunities or some social opportunities or some other opportunities because you have to make it if you want to be the best, you have to make it your number one. And that's selfish, and we'll talk about that, but that's what it takes because other people are willing to do that. So if somebody's willing to work as hard as Jennifer Jones and Brad Gushu and you want to be where they are, I don't know any other way other than doing what they did and working as hard as they did and making some choices that may require you to miss some stuff. Whatever that happens. A lot of stuff. A lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Yeah, but I never felt, and we can talk a little bit about that, like the personal cost associated with curling in terms of relationships or social life, parenting, all of those things. I never felt like it was a cost. Like I never felt like it was a sacrifice. Looking back, there definitely are some sacrifices. You don't, like we've said, like I I I don't think I've had a Thanksgiving with my family. I mean, my family came to watch me curling Calgary, so but with my entire family or at home, I didn't have one for 25 years. You know, it was at the curling club and you miss out on birthday parties. I I our family never celebrates a birthday on the actual day because basically curling always got in the way. So we just kind of made this thing. Well, we'll just find a day and we'll celebrate it on that day. Um, but the people around me supported curling, but it's even friendships and social like you you just don't have that flexibility to to see your friends all the time. And I believe that that's what I gave up the most was time like social time, times with friends, family time. Um obviously you may put off marriage. And I know for women, you know, you too would try to plan your pregnancies so that it would work well into the curling schedule, which is becoming more and more difficult because the curling schedule is so long. But you you know, and that was really stressful because you're trying, you know, it's not easy sometimes to get pregnant, and then you're trying to make sure you're doing it during certain months, trying to have a baby between like in the summer months, and that's not easy either.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Yeah, and the summer is now like you said, it's two and a half months long. It used to be six. So no, it's it's interesting. And one of the other uh questions that actually came in was about you know, marriage during Olympic cycles. For us, it's not, you know, we understand because we're both we were both going through the same thing. So we know what it we knew what it took. Uh it took grandma Carol's what it took for us, but it we we knew what it took, we knew the the commitment and all those things, and yeah, we knew you're not gonna and you know even in university, you know, you're not gonna be probably a water buffalo. You're not going to those, you're not gonna be part of a frat. You're not probably gonna play university sports, you're probably not gonna be in a lot of clubs. I had a teacher in business try and kick me out of her class because I missed too many classes. And thankfully, the dean, when I met with the dean, did a little research and sat down and said, No, I think, you know, we had just won the World Junior Championship, and the the dean stepped in and said, No, I think we want to encourage these types of people to come to Laurier. And I don't know what's changed since then, but yeah, there's gonna be changes. But what about in a marriage or or a relationship where one person's chasing it and leaving not leaving, but the other person is kind of left with the bill at home, whether there's kids or whether it's just keeping the lights on or you know, whatever it is, because that's the case in most. There's a lot of couples that curl, but most of them don't. And I I would think that would be difficult.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Yeah, I think it is difficult. You you you know, you talk to the spouses of of players and just the challenges that it has when you're at home taking care of the house, the kids, making sure everything's working the way it should, and you know that you're you know your partner's chasing their dreams, but you phone them and they might be having an afternoon nap.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Yeah, that was that'd be the toughest one.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

And I might not want to mention that if your spouse calls home just as they're like, you know, at wit's end trying to figure out everything. But yeah, I think it it does take a lot of support and um it's something I know you know going in, but I mean you might not really realize how much it is until you're in it, but for the most part, it's just you're living the dream with them. And I know for us, I get as excited when you win as when we do, even probably more so. And so I think I would have been fine if it was me staying at home because he feels so emotionally invested, but it is uh it's a lot, like it's it's it's hard to be on your own, especially with kids trying to figure out logistics and getting them to where they need to be. And if they're sick, then it's you know on the person that's at home to figure that all out. So it it has its moments for sure. You still need a grab McCarroll.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

I would think so. And yeah, I believe that you would have been okay with it, and I also know that I would not have been okay with it. It would have been too much for me. Yeah, if you were away those 120 days and I'm at home and we're still we still have the same kind of life and family and kids and stuff. No, I would have I would have struggled.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

It would have been full-on struggle. You struggle in a week, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Like I've been home alone without you, obviously, lots of times when you're curling, and parts of it are fun, and parts of it are great, and parts of it aren't. Yeah, parts of it aren't to my strengths, and my strength is being selfish, so that's not that's not helping that. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

No, you just don't like being super busy, and so when you're on your own and you're responsible for everything, it just feels like chaos. It just feels like you're constantly busy.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

That's true, and I think that's part of what I loved about curling was it was never chaotic. It was you were able to be, you were expected to be selfish and focused on one thing, and that one thing was when is the next game? Do I have to sleep? Do I have to eat? And that's pretty much it.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Yeah. And yeah, it was very, it was very simple. And whereas when we're at home, it's like, hey, Isabella's got to go here, we gotta go here, yeah, school is going on, gotta pack lunches. Lunches is my nemesis, but that's another another podcasting.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

But we're talking about families, and is it realistic to think that a family can have a normal life, whatever normal is in in quotations, with a high performance athlete or especially during, say, an Olympic cycle?

SPEAKER_00 19:20

I don't think it'll ever be normal. Um, I don't think that's realistic for what society views as normal. And I think sometimes I struggled with that because I felt that people actually I know that people were very judgmental towards you and me for being away all the time and and the kids, but I look back and it might not be normal in terms of what other people would see as normal, but for us, I think it gave a lot of advantages to our our kids and they had a lot of experiences. I I believe it turned it helped shape them into the the people that they are. They're very independent, they dream big, they're hard workers, they're very good with their time because we've had to be very good with our time, with our time management, knowing when you have to get things done. Um so there's there was a lot of advantages, but no, I don't believe it's normal. And people will will would say to me, You're away again. It's like, yeah, I am. But when we're away, I still felt connected to our family. Like I it was very important to me to call home all the time and to to really feel like I was involved. And I don't think that was as important to you, but um for me it was just really important to feel involved. So even when we were away, I still felt it was normal and it was our normal, but no, it's not the traditional normal nine to five kind of life.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

No, sure. And then we've talked about the the myth of balance, the work-life balance, and especially elite levels of sport. And again, if that's what you're looking for, you're not gonna get to the top of any of any sport.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

I think for me, I had a really kind of moment really early on when Isabella was young. And I'm not even sure where I was, but Isabella wasn't with me. I mean, she came to everything, so I wasn't, you know, I was away and my mind was full of guilt. I just felt guilty for not being where she was. So it just felt like a waste. Like, why did I even bother coming to train? I'm not really invested in this. And I promised myself, I made this commitment to myself that I had changed my mindset that I didn't want to just go through the motions of life. I wanted to be present and be in the in the moment and be where my feet were as we often say. Oh, I was waiting for that. As we often say. So when I was with Isabella, she was gonna get 100% of my attention and obviously when I was with you and and when I was working, when I was curling, I was gonna be really focused on that. And that mindset, that change of mindset really made a big difference for me. It changed my total outlook. Uh, I felt like I was in the moment, I was present. I can remember the small details. I wasn't just going through the motions of what I was doing. I was really invested in it. And there was no guilt. Uh, if we wanted to have the life that we had, I was gonna have to sometimes travel and be away. And that was a part of it. But then when I was home, I could really be. present and be extra focused on what I was doing at home. And so there was kind of pros and cons. And once I come to came to terms with that, it it really did change my life in almost everything I do. And just make sure that all those little small moments in life we appreciate. And you know, they always say stop to smell the roses, but for us it's just enjoy every little moment. And you know, we love family movie night. We get excited for that. We get excited for all the small things. And I think it's because we take a moment to really be grateful and and really be present.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

And it is nice when you're home, you're home. And I I think one of the things that a lot of people chasing big goals and especially in in athletics, you do have some downtime and you do have some control of your schedule. That's not to say you're not doing something every day but sometimes you have a little bit of control and you can take some time uh to do kind of what you want to do. Sometimes you can't but sometimes you can except when the drug testers come now that is another then you're out you're on your own you even if you just had a baby ten days ago and you know that baby's crying they're coming in.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

They are coming in. I I remember having to go and pick the kids up at something and all of a sudden they show up at the door and it's like I I need to go and get my kids like so you they almost have to come with.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Yep. That's exactly what they have to do.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

So or one day one year they came December 23rd and I was wrapping all the Christmas presents. I was watching my Hallmark Christmas movie. I had a glass of wine sitting there and I literally had just gone to the bathroom not that we need to know these things but they just enjoy they just watch me wrap presents all night long.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

There was only one time where I just ignored them ignored them. I didn't answer the door and they kept they were there for I was feeling I was sick as a dog in bed. I remember texting you the lights were all off they're knocking on the door I know who exactly who it is people don't knock on my door at 9 30 at night and I'm home alone in bed and I just didn't get up and they're knocking and knocking and knocking. No I just I couldn't do that.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Could you imagine me doing that?

SPEAKER_01 24:01

No but I wasn't up for it and I was just like piss off I've passed every test I'm sick and I don't want to deal with you right now. So if that gets me in trouble with wada now then I guess they're coming for me. But I I did I just ignored them the whole time and they stayed for a long time like 30 days.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

It wasn't during your hour it was just a random it wasn't during my hour.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

No every uh every day you have to give them one hour but we always gave them between five and six in the morning or 5 30 and 6 30 whatever it was. But they never came during that time they always came during dinner because this couple who were the drug testers in our area I guess that was better for them.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

I know it was just so annoying because we had family time or our kids knew who the drug testers were they would come in and sit and while we were feeding our kids just a strange it is really strange. The only one I remember is I remember I had I had meningitis do you remember I'll say yes. You do okay and so I was very sensitive to light like I had really bad migraines and I was home alone you had gone my mom was coming Isabella was young still and my mom was coming but there was a few hour gap where I was on my own and that's of course when they came so I couldn't turn the lights on I had this little baby I was so sick. See should have ignored them so that's actually the one thing that I not one the only thing but when we were it's it's just so nice to know that they're not going to come ever again.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

No they're not and not that you're scared of them.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Like we never did anything that's why you're on all the drugs now.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Oh yeah yeah still can HGH and all the good stuff now.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Yeah no no no I've never even taken a multivitamin for goodness sake. Anyway but yeah it's just there's just so many different things about about what we've done as athletes that I think have really kind of shaped our life but I there are definitely pros and cons. I really do believe we're really good at appreciating and be grateful for every little moment we have yeah no I agree and back to kind of the original question you know do you have you ever felt guilty for what you've done?

SPEAKER_01 25:57

And I I can say that no I've never felt guilty because uh everybody who knew me knew how important it was to me and knew that that was you know just call it what you want call it selfish call it whatever but that was number one and everything I was going to do in my life kind of worked in around that and I had a great life still I still got to do a lot of other stuff because we're curlers we're not you know 50k cross country skiers so our training's a little bit different but it is still a ton of time and effort and that's that's what it takes and I was willing to do whatever I could and whatever whatever it took to get there.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

And I still feel like I could have done a ta a lot more yeah no I don't I don't I don't think I change anything and obviously curling worked out pretty well for us um and I love all the moments and the memories. I think sometimes when what we were talking about earlier financially sometimes I sit there and think that's not a good game to play. No I no it's it's not even the game it's just sometimes I look at the kids and it's I part of me feels like we've let I let them down. But that but that's me. Because it it you know it would just be a little bit in a different place if we didn't use so much of our years curling.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Do you think you'd feel any different if you weren't as successful? Like if you didn't win the Olympic gold or make the Olympics twice, you know win the world championships, all the grand slams do you think you would look back on it differently like I don't know. I don't like to look at things that in terms of regret I mean or in terms of do you think you would have quit earlier?

SPEAKER_00 27:20

Yeah for sure I think I would have just because of the kids and and like the kids are the most important well and you are the most important thing in the There's a lot of and you's in this in the world. Uh you know so I I think maybe I would have but I don't think that they they lost anything by us curling or competing but I just think again you know you could go off and and maybe do other things that uh may help in the long run. But no I I don't I don't think I would regret it. It felt like we were just chasing dreams for our whole life and if you have a life of dream chasing and kind of make having some success I think that's a pretty good life to have yeah no I I agree with you.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

How how hard is it? We're talking about the cost of it you know are there any emotional costs for putting in so much time and effort in four years, eight years, 12 years, 16 years, whatever it is and not getting to I mean obviously if we're talking in quadrennials we're talking about the Olympics. You know is there an emotional cost on that like you you missed a couple of times before it happened but you didn't quit obviously you had some success uh obviously a lot of success elsewhere but is is there any emotional cost to that like how long does it take you to get over something like that?

SPEAKER_00 28:32

Well obviously it takes a little bit but no I don't even think about that. When you're asking the question I was like oh that doesn't kind of stupid question to you no that doesn't even come into my mind like I no I Are you saying there's more to it than just actual winning and losing that didn't it obviously it's heartbreaking when it happens and you know it takes a little bit to get over but it's it's all the fun stuff along the way and the trying and Wayne Madaugh just turned this podcast off if he's listening.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Yeah there's nothing else there's winning and that's it.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Yeah and I know it's a big part of it but for me it never really was like it just it just wasn't and I actually you got over losses better than I did I think.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Well I lost a lot more than you I had to I didn't want to jump off a bridge so I had to come up with another plan.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

So but even though it hurts like it was still okay like I I I actually had a pretty good perspective on that. So no I I don't think the emotional turmoil or any of that the ups and downs no I I don't regret that um would you recommend this lifestyle to young people like the next generation to our kids?

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Million percent yeah yeah for sure I mean that what's better in life than having a a a North Star goal and working your ass off towards it and the things you learn in the failures the excitement of being part of something and yeah just having something it can be anything. Yeah but that's what that's what I'm re that's the lifestyle I recommend. Find something that's super hard and go chase it for basically all your life. Yeah. And even if you don't land there even if it's not everything you wanted even if you finish fourth at the Olympics you probably still learn something along the way and you're gonna meet some great people and some like minded people and that's what it's about for me was being a part of a group and a team that was on the same path doing anything they could for each other because they wanted the same things. And that was yeah that was pretty cool for me.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Yeah no and I agree. I think it is you know as you see these kids part of me always with sport for sure and again probably another podcast as you see these kids specialize at such a young age and all the time and the money that's invested by the parents and sometimes you just can't afford to do all of these things. I don't know if that's necessarily the way to go but if they're so passionate where they're dragging you to the rink every day and they're doing all of these things then why not support that if you can?

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Yeah no I that's how I've always felt like and my and my parents were great my and we live close to the curling club but my dad didn't ever ask me I'm sure he did ask me do you want to go to the curling club but every time I asked it was like yeah sure.

unknown 30:59

Right.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Because he knew I loved it and I think if you don't love it you're gonna run out of I think that's what that's why people really quit and I'm not here to tell you I love the game more than you I'm more of a traditional I'm more whatever. But if you really loved the game and the chase and everything about it you wouldn't give up so you wouldn't give up a 25 or you know all these young people that are really good. You wouldn't quit if you actually truly loved the chase and if you don't love that then yeah you're gonna quit yeah I probably would have quit if we didn't have grandma Carol though and I loved it more than anything. No you would never have quit you would have just brought the babies on the ice bring the babies on the ice ice yeah on my back well yeah first in the bucket and then in the baby bjorn and then after that they're fine that once they're three like they're they're good to go. Yeah anyway so you know why did we do it? I kind of just touched on it but why did we chase such big goals you know for so long what's the reward like what's what's in it for me that's what everybody wants to know. Why would I do this Brent you tell me I I should do this why would I want to you know chase something so difficult to do I think it was just really satisfying trying to achieve something like always trying to improve trying to evolve like it it was just so satisfying it just felt like you were living life to the fullest every single day for me and was it the trying to improve that was satisfying or was it the actual noticing that hey I'm trying everything I can and I'm actually getting better?

SPEAKER_00 32:23

I I think it was both like I think it was setting the plan and having goals and working towards those goals and they were tangible you could tell and and being a part of a team where you felt like you belonged in this family and and you could really try to see what you could achieve together. And it was so much bigger than just a win like I'm really proud I think I think our team helped change women's curling try to help it be more aggressive like it wasn't just about wins and losses for us. Like I couldn't imagine just throwing hits up and down the sheet for 10 ends just because I thought we were better hitters and that's how we were going to win a game. Like that wouldn't even come or cross my mind. To me it was about entertaining the fans trying to grow the game like that was involved in it too. So there were so many external factors that gave me a sense of satisfaction and joy that it was never just about results.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

So it it until the gold medal game in the seventh end where you had to hit that end. You guys were leaking oil.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Oh that was the fifth end. Fifth end? Yeah before the fifth end break. Okay yeah we'll look back on it some I didn't say I didn't hit I'm just saying you know those games blanks and oh my goodness but but yeah I I think for me why I kept doing it well we were good at it too which kind of helped and um you felt like the the the goals were attainable but it was just more about seeing what we could do and I really do believe it kept me young. If it I I don't feel my age sometimes when I read it on paper I'm like really is that how old I am like I just don't feel it and I think it's because we're constantly pursuing chasing living this this unbelievable life like I I think it kept us young. Where would we go with that? I think it was healthy.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

I am still young nothing needs to keep me young so that's fair. Yeah. And you already answered this but uh kind of the wrap up before the rapid fires is would you do it all again knowing the sacrifices and I didn't like even typing that word as the question but no I don't I don't like the word sacrifice.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

Yeah I I definitely would do like like I said I I would do it again. I I think we've lived a great life um yeah it just it just means that we'll probably work till we're 80.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

Well that's hoping I hope I make it to 80 I don't think I'm built like grandma Carol. She's going forever but so that uh kind of wraps things up but before we go we do have a couple of um rapid fire questions. This one I thought was interesting so that's why I took the mic here because I want you to answer it because it's kind of hard. What's harder making the Olympics or staying there? So what's harder making it to number one in the world Jen or staying there?

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Well for us it was making it to the Olympics because it was one game like we tried for so long and the Olympic trials you have to play well at one event and you can be ranked number one in the world and it doesn't matter I think a lot of people would be saying staying there like it's hard to kind of because everybody's chasing you and they're constantly working harder but for me it was making the Olympics.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

I think that's the cliche answers you're supposed to say it's harder to stay there but it's harder to make it the truth is once when you get there you you know how you got there and then you just look for you do exactly what you did on the way up it's like where can we get better on the way up it's like well we got a whole bunch of things we can get better and then when you get there it's like okay where do we have gaps? What can we still get better at and there's always things so it's the little changes and that's that's what keeps you there. But yeah that's a question that a lot of people ask and okay my turn. Yeah it's way harder to get there.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Come on what do you what do you as an athlete miss most about normal life?

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Well I don't think I ever l lived a normal life so I'm not exactly sure uh you know traveling around I loved it I I don't you know lots of people talk about oh the travel it's like I got no problem hanging out on a plane for a while. I mean as long as the Asia flights were my favorite like well you're flying up front because you fly so much but maybe I don't even know like what is what is a normal life to me I don't I don't miss I I just loved having something to chase you know and a a goal to get after and I think that's why business suits suits us now and suits me now but as an athlete I think though I I just I miss birthdays. I hate Thanksgiving dinner so I that was cool to be curling I'd rather order dominoes on a Saturday night in Brockville or wherever no we weren't in Brockville where was Thanksgiving we reported all the time that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

Yeah but no I I it wasn't birthdays it was just I I always don't like letting people down and I feel this actually makes me emotional. I feel like sometimes while I was chasing my dreams I let some of my friends down because I wasn't there all the time and they always hung by me and I'm all I'm so grateful for that. I have got these amazing friends that have stuck by me even though I wasn't physically present a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

So I think I've seen that wear on you and weigh on you.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

Yeah so I think it does bother me. That's one thing that because I've they're just incredible people and I just wish I could have been there more for them just in everyday life like going for coffee or if they needed me for something and I just couldn't I was just never could be that person because I was away all the time.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

See I'm I learned I didn't learn this I think I was built this way but Rich Hart told me early on he's like you guys are my three best friends and I only got room for three.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

Yeah but no I I get that and I think that would be and that actually makes me sad even talking about it because I just that's my I think my not my Achilles heel but like something I stress about is I never want to let anybody down ever.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

Even me.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

Even you mostly you mostly you and the girls so this is another one that came in for for Rapid Fire.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

How many league athletes and curlers are burning out and do those that burn out have anything in common?

SPEAKER_00 37:43

I don't is burnout a real thing no like I people say they are they're tired they don't want to curl as much I think the schedule is too much they want more time off and it's we used to play all every weekend we play three weekends a month because you were chasing points and we were trying to support events and and I know maybe like according to the physiologists and all of that but I if you're doing what you love to do it never felt like work to me. So um I guess maybe I know burnout's a thing like it it it is a thing but it's just a question of you know maybe it's time to move on to something different then because it's just it's so intense when you're trying to achieve certain things.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

Yeah I mean I went to high school with a whole bunch of burnouts but that was a different kind of burnout. I I I agree if you if you're loving what you're doing it's not going to feel like work. It's not going to feel like oh I'm tired I don't want to go and I can't think of a time where we were going to even a smaller event after having some success where I was like I just don't want to go like I still got excited for every curling event.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

Yeah and I mean I know it can feel like sometimes you you know you just need a some time off and I totally support that and get that but it's also just this if this is something that you want to do, you want to be the best in the entire world at something it is a lot of work and it's a lot of time and it's a lot of um choices that have to be made and you're gonna miss out on certain things and it's gonna feel busy and so sometimes you have to raise your hand and say look I just need a a minute but um I think if it if it happens all the time then maybe it's just something that you're just done like you're just done with what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

Lots of time to nap on the road if you're burning out you're doing that wrong.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

Yeah that's true. That's all I did on the road was snap.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Right?

SPEAKER_00 39:24

But I think that wraps it up so uh thank you so much everyone for tuning in. Keep rocking the chaos maybe chase a few adventures love the ride and never stop dreaming. We will see you next time on Rockstars